50% bio diesel in a 96 7.3l no start

psdtech · November 5, 2008

can anyone tell me what damage the biodiesel will cause and how to check for that the truck will not start at all. came from another shop that put a used idm and a cmp in also shimmed cmp twice. i put two new batts in all pids look good mechanical fuel gauge at filter housing says 40 psi cranking glow plugs and relay are ok slight smoke from exhaust when cranking but does not sound like its even trying to fire customer says he runs this fuel in all his truck and never had a problem. i dont know what his other trucks are

Bruce Amacker · November 6, 2008

can anyone tell me what damage the biodiesel will cause and how to check for that the truck will not start at all. came from another shop that put a used idm and a cmp in also shimmed cmp twice. i put two new batts in all pids look good mechanical fuel gauge at filter housing says 40 psi cranking glow plugs and relay are ok slight smoke from exhaust when cranking but does not sound like its even trying to fire customer says he runs this fuel in all his truck and never had a problem. i don't know what his other trucks are

Lots of questions here- Did you check glow plug amperage? Have you tried subbing another fuel in the filter housing, or filling the filter housing with Stanadyne or PM-17A? Have you taken a fuel sample from the filter drain into a glass jar? What does it look and smell like? Are the injectors being energized while cranking?

Back to basics- Glow plug amperage over 150 amps (195 is correct) at initial key-on, ICP voltage about 1.5vdc cranking, cranking RPM above 150.

Substitute another fuel in the filter housing, and may be even pull the flex return lines from the pressure regulator and let them bleed into a can while cranking to get the fresh fuel into the head galleys.

Is this "B50" homemade? If so, the injectors are probably trashed. Homemade Bio can be run (yech!) in a PLN mechanical diesel, but electronic diesels are not as forgiving. His other trucks may be PLN systems....

Good Luck!

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif

Bruce Amacker · November 6, 2008

PS:

If the guy goes for the repairs, sell him a fuel pressure regulator cleaning. The FPR has a tendency on these early engines to accumulate a lot of crud and debris, and that's on a non-B50 truck. Common things found in an early FPR are rubber chunkies from injector o-ring deterioration and metal shavings from a deteriorating fuel pump. Paper fiber buildup from aftermarket fuel filters is common in the screen on the side of the filter housing. General crap also builds up for no reason. This is easy and quick and can commonly be done without buying an o-ring kit. The PN for the kit is F6TZ-9150-BA, but beware of the price- last checked was about $50. (Larry: This PN was one of the most difficult I ever found, because FMC calls the IPR a "Fuel Pressure Regulator". It took me months of wrong parts to get this kit!)

Good Luck!

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/coffee.gif

This FPR is a perfect example of Ford's over-engineering something and having it come back to bite you. In the Gen 2 7.3 FMC went with a design similar to IH's with no more problems. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif

Posted Image

LARRY BRUDZYNSKI · November 6, 2008

Quote:

The PN for the kit is F6TZ-9150-BA, but beware of the price- last checked was about $50. (Larry: This PN was one of the most difficult I ever found, because FMC calls the IPR a "Fuel Pressure Regulator". It took me months of wrong parts to get this kit!)

Yeah it was a bugger to find the first time, but printing out the blowup for the filter assy and listing the #'s on it saves time when brain fade occurs. I have piles of these little cheat sheets.

psdtech · November 6, 2008

the customer is taking the truck away on a trailer we are a satelite shop with limited tools no way to check amps of glow plugs i ohmed them all good but #2 that melted the harness i recommended that we replace the uvc harness gasket and connector and do a compression test as the vehicle has 250,000 miles on a plow truck they declined it all so i had to push it out turn out the guy work for a guy that owns a chain of restaurants thats where they get the biodiesel i've seen there vans that say they are running on bio they are dodge sprinters.thanks for the help any way the guy came and got the truck with an 05-06 f-350 6.0l i wonder what in that fuel tank

Bruce Amacker · November 6, 2008

guy that owns a chain of restaurants thats where they get the biodiesel i've seen there vans that say they are running on bio they are dodge sprinters.thanks for the help any way the guy came and got the truck with an 05-06 f-350 6.0l i wonder what in that fuel tank

That guy's going to learn some expensive lessons. Homemade bio and electronic diesels mix like oil and water....

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif

SteveS · November 9, 2008

we are a satelite shop with limited tools no way to check amps

work for a guy that owns a chain of restaurants thats where they get the biodiesel

truck with an 05-06 f-350 6.0l i wonder what in that fuel tank

I know that money is tight, but a decent amp clampcan be found well under $200; it will save you a lot of grief, and probably save enough time to pay for itself in reasonably short time.

I wonder if they are running WVO? Does "50% Bio" mean that one tank has fry oil?

I'm sure that the 6.0 will be OK, it has 2 filters! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/rolleyes.gif

Bruce Amacker · November 9, 2008

Originally Posted By: psdtech

we are a satellite shop with limited tools no way to check amps
work for a guy that owns a chain of restaurants that's where they get the biodiesel

truck with an 05-06 f-350 6.0l i wonder what in that fuel tank

I know that money is tight, but a decent amp clampcan be found well under $200; it will save you a lot of grief, and probably save enough time to pay for itself in reasonably short time.

They are available much cheaper than $200, this is only $59 list at Sears and works well. If you get it on sale with Craftsman Club it can be as cheap as $29. I use them in my electrical class and it's one of my favorite tools. Quick glow plug diag, charging system diag, slow drain, dual alt outputs, etc, etc, etc. You won't regret buying one!

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_03482369000P

I wonder if they are running WVO? Does "50% Bio" mean that one tank has fry oil?

I'd bet 50% filtered fry oil and mixed with 50% diesel fuel.

I'm sure that the 6.0 will be OK, it has 2 filters! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/rolleyes.gif

Yea, uh huh. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crazy.gif

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif

Keith Browning · November 9, 2008

Bruce you are a seemingly endless source of information and ideas. Is there a USB port on your skull we can tap into? /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/notworthy.gif

LARRY BRUDZYNSKI · November 10, 2008

Keith I think you have already done that. Bruce is a member here. And I think he really loves all of the attention.

Bruce Amacker · November 10, 2008

Don't forget this is a two way street, I learn as much as I contribute here. That's the whole point of this forum, right?

I have said many times before: The best thing that has happened to our industry in the last 25 years is the Internet. It allows information access from a variety of sources that makes us much stronger as a whole. Thanks again to Keith for making this network possible.

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/thumbup.gif