P2201 - (2) EGRT sensors? -40F?

billbled · January 24, 2023

Hi all,
Truck: 2016 F-450
VIN: 1FD0W4HT6GEC57886
Mileage: 51,682

DTC: P2201

Going thru the checks in the pinpoint list, but listed in freeze frame data that caught my eye is:
EGRT11: -40F
EGRT12: 33.8F

My question is on the EGRT11 sensor - I can't find it.

I've got the drawings from the PTS site showing where it should be - but we're having a hell of a time finding the sensor. Has anyone been down this road? Is there actually an EGRT11 sensor on the truck? If there isn't - why is it listed in the freeze frame data and why at -40F if it isn't actually there? If it IS there, then there's a sensor/wiring issue because of the -40F reading (Central NC will never get this cold, barring another ice age). This reading stays at -40F even with the engine running.

Any ideas or pointers?
Thanks,
Bill

8WA Sman · January 24, 2023

EGRT11 should be in the flex pipe coming of of the EGR cooler.

FYI..Truck has several FSA open including 21N01 which pertains to the P2201, I would suggest starting there.

billbled · January 25, 2023

Hi Glen,
Thanks - We've seen the open FSAs - and have done 21N02 (I'm assuming that's what you meant as 21N01 is for an Explorer) and have also done 21E01 before that - so the PCM is programmed with IDS 128.05 and up to date. Also has a new NOx11 (front NOx) sensor installed. Still getting the P2201 after a test drive.

The EGRT sensor you're referencing in the flex pipe - is it the one in the photograph attached?
This is the source of my confusion - in the workshop manual on the PTS site, it says that one is EGRT12, and that EGRT11 (which measures -40F for me) is the one in the attached drawing (and I can/t find it on the engine).

Our local Ford dealer even can't locate a parts reference for it (EGRT11) but it's there in the manual and I've got a reading for it in IDS. The manual does say "NOTE: Not all versions of the 6.7L diesel are equipped with an EGR Cooler Inlet Exhaust Gas Recirculation Temperature (EGRT) 11 Sensor."

But I did see a reference that the cab/chassis trucks do have the second EGRT (EGRT11).

Not trying to be a P.I.T.A. but wondering if anyone here has been down this specific road or has further info on which trucks do/don't have the other EGRT sensor. They all seem to have the one in the attached photograph I took - it's the other one that's messing us up.

Thanks,
Bill

billbled · January 25, 2023

Doing some more digging and found the attached pic in training material from a class a few years ago. It was in a 2015 6.7 supplement book. It says the EGRT11 sensor is pickup only - so if that's true, and it really isn't on the truck (which it looks like it's not - it's not at the location pictured on our truck) then WHY would any reading at all show up in Freeze Frame data? Any ideas?

Thanks,
Bill

8WA Sman · January 25, 2023

Do you remember when doing the PCM update if it asked if it is for a pickup or cab chassis?

Sorry I had the sensors mixed up. Look up C1448 in the wiring diagram.

Does the EGR Temp 1 sensor show up in the Pid data. My research shows that EGRTA has a baseline of 392°

Was the reset/clear function performed after the new Nox?

billbled · January 25, 2023

To answer:

Do you remember when doing the PCM update if it asked if it is for a pickup or cab chassis?

I am certain it did not. It DID however ask about the connector on the vent tube, whether it was grey with teeth or smooth and black - it gave me the warning about answering incorrectly could cause the Fed emission police to fast rope out of the ceiling etc etc. But it never asked about cab/chassis or pickup.

Does the EGR Temp 1 sensor show up in the Pid data?

Yes. What I get is EGRTA (Bank1 Sensor1) and EGRTC (Bank1 Sensor2). See attached.

Was the reset/clear function performed after the new Nox?

Yes.

Also....I just re-ran the Module Programming function - and got a notice that now there is new software for the
NOx modules (see attached). So I've completed that programming and am getting ready to drive the truck to see how it does. Will let everyone know when I get back.

billbled · January 27, 2023

Keeping folks in the loop on an apparent conclusion to this - Sent the truck off yesterday after a successful test drive (no MIL and no pending faults) and it hasn't come back. It appears that the last round of NOx programming may have done it. First did 21E01 when it programmed the PCM and both NOx modules - then I replaced the front NOx (NOx11) sensor (21N02). Still no good. Got pending faults for P2201. Went back to run programming on the PCM again, mainly as a doublecheck, and it said the PCM was ok but both NOx modules had updates. It was like the NOx module updates needed updating, but the PCM update was ok. So I ran those and then had a successful (long) test drive. Hope this may help others if they travel the same path.

Cheers,
Bill

8WA Sman · January 28, 2023

Does EGRTA still read -40°?

billbled · January 30, 2023

Well.... stay tuned - the truck (so I'm told by the driver) "hiccuped" today and the MIL turned back on. So I'll see what fault it kicked this time - same or different. And I'll check on the EGRTA to see if it's still -40F. They're going to drop it off in an hour or so.

billbled · January 31, 2023

Got the truck back in - P2201 is back. And EGRTA is still showing up as -40F, even though none of us can find/see an EGRTA sensor actually on the truck.

forddieseldoctor · February 2, 2023

My thoughts are if there is not a code for that sensor. Don’t worry too hard about it. I’m pretty sure that hotline will tell you that it is a glitch in either the pcm programming or the ids. I scanned through ppt RD for this code. It tells you to check the other egr temp sensor for bias along with a bunch of other temp sensors.

My suggestion is to ignore it and go through the ppt for the code that is present.

8WA Sman · February 2, 2023

I agree with Zach. The only other thing that I can think of is to find a like truck and see what that EGRTA reads.

billbled · February 9, 2023

Sorry to be out of the loop on this - they've run me to other counties and I had some time off - anyway....

I did find the sister truck of this one - same mo/yr of mfr - VIN off only by a few and checked EGRTA on that one. Same exact results in IDS ..... -40F. No codes for it. And no actual sensor present either. So I guess that's normal on these trucks.

On the problem child truck (the original subject of this thread), I tried doing a manual regen. It aborted due to overheating - code 1D (Upstream catalyst or DPF temp protection active). When the regen started the PID DPF_LOAD_PCT (%) was at 447. The regen aborted when EGT12 got to above 1,141F after about 6 minutes. EGT11 was 680F, EGT12 was 1,141F, EGT13 was 561F, EGT14 was 266F when I took the snapshot at abort.

So I tried again, same result but the DPF LOAD got down to 337. Tried one more time, same 6 min abort and the DPF LOAD got down to 159. Also, during this the PID for DPF_SOOT_INF started at 2.777 and ended at 1.635.

I test drove the truck after the 3rd aborted regen attempt and it drove OK with no MIL. So I sent it back to Roadside to put back in service and it hasn't been back. This is one of our spray trucks, so it goes out on the highway, and crawls the side of the road, literally at a walk speed, while they spray pesticides on the weeds and vegitation. I don't know if this type of useage is contributing to the problems. But there's not much "get out and run" time on this engine. It's mostly get to the stretch of road, crawl along the side, then drive back to the yard. Seems like a gas burner might have been a better choice for this particular truck.

Anyway, thanks very much for the responses here I really do appreciate the input.

I will update this thread if it comes back and has more on this DTC.