Jim Warman Posted October 27, 2007 Share Posted October 27, 2007 At various times, I have had others busting my chops over my thoughts on hand tools... particularly my stance on "tool truck tools".... Now, I do have my fair share of SnapOff and Mac tools but, at my age, I need to be preparing for my golden years - not sending some toolmonger off to Cancun for the winter. Over the years, I have developed a "taste" for tools that has proved to be both economical and given me some tools that are, indeed, superior to those brands we accept as "the best". For an open end wrench, I have yet to see the superiority of "flank drive".... Instead, I watch to see if the open end will spread under torque... Here, in Canada, one very popular brand of "professional quality" is Westward tools. Let's start out by saying that these wrenches are ugly... bone ugly... if this wrench was a girl, she'd be leaving the bar alone even after 2 AM - they're that ugly. But if I have to use the open end, the Snappy stays in the drawer... And this holds true for so many "bargain" brands.... A long time ago, I got tired of paying for that big shiny truck and all the fuel it gobbles.... I got tired of waiting two weeks for the truck to park in our driveway just so the toolmonger could tell me that the wrench is worn out - not broken - no warranty.... Oh, there are many things I prefer to purchase off the tool truck... but there are so many more that we can shop wisely for - and come away with an equal (if not superior) product for a lot less money - that's money that we get to keep in OUR jeans. So here's the question.... Do you blindly crawl up in the tool truck (being careful to bring your own jar of vaseline)? Or are you like some disagreeable old farts and say things like "What - your eye candy wont undo that? Try this old <blasphemous brand>... I got this when you was just a gleam in your Daddy's eye"? The idea is to maximize our personal profitability - part of that will come from selecting tools that have a better warranty, equal or better performance, convenient warranty exchange - and a lower selling price... Side benefit..... If I need a custom wrench, I don't feel bad about heating and bending an affordable wrench (I've even had bent wrenches warranteed when I snipe it and break off part of the open end).... but my eye candy is still eye candy - and I just can't bring myself to bend an over priced wrench... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted October 27, 2007 Share Posted October 27, 2007 I thought I was just a cheap bastard! Turns out I am just frugal. My Snap-On dealer knows me all too well. I typically wont buy a "set" unless I really have a foreseen need for the set. I will instead purchase the one or two of whatever set that I need unless the price and quality are right. He also sighted my ability to make my own tools much to his dismay. Concerning the wrenches I was just up against the very paradox Jim mentions. I was up against replacing a FRP sensor on that 6.4. It requires a 1-1/16 socket/wrench/crowfoot or whatever will fir and allow enough swing to rotate the sensor or not interfere with the injector head or more importantly, move, bend or damage the #3 fuel line. I thought long about cutting that $25 Snap-On wrench. Considered going on a road test to the Sears Hardware store right down the street to buy a cheapie wrench to cut for this specific use. Looked doubly hard at the channel Lock adjustable (which I found) that failed to open that extra MM /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/mad.gif to get onto the sensor... looked at it again. Then I modified it! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smirk.gif Yep. I am a cheap frugal bastard! I gotta offset the cost of my IDS now don't I? /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif Then just yesterday My Snap-On dealer was visiting while I was pressing in ball joints on an F550. Still battling with the right combination of adapters to prevent damaging the grease seal while using my hand tool. Our new press is great but more trouble than the hand tool. Well, this time my coworker was there to join the discussion and suggested borrowing his used bearing race to make the hand tool fit and accept the lower ball joint... opposed to the $64 OTC 4X4 upgrade kit to my hand press. After they ended their argument I used the bearing. I continue to replace loose & rusted ball joints that EX-coworkers had previously installed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted October 27, 2007 Author Share Posted October 27, 2007 You can buy a SnapOn wrench for $25????? 5/16ths combo wrench = $40 last time I had the misfortune of needing one. I do a lot of alignment work (everyone else is too proud) and picked up a 21mm/24mm box end for a mere $75..... OTOH, I picked up a set of Cambodian (Canadian) Tires "professional quality" metric combo wrenches for $29.95 (plus gouge and screw tax) - 6mm to 24mm (sadly missing the 21mm). For half the price of ONE <brand name> wrench, these things have done everything I've asked them to. Purchased as "benders", I decided to give them a try for regular stuff. There are places where we can economize and there are places we can't... the magic is in learning the difference.... ya friggin' tightwad /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Amacker Posted October 27, 2007 Share Posted October 27, 2007 used bearing race to make the hand tool fit and accept the lower ball joint... opposed to the $64 OTC 4X4 upgrade kit to my hand press. After they ended their argument I used the bearing. I've also made more tools than I can count, and keep several sets of tools on hand so when I need to trash one, it's not the Snappy. I've bought ten times more Snappy from the pawn shop than off the truck. I've welded bearing races into various assemblies to do a certain task. I saved bearings for decades, and on slow days even had the guys cut the cages off to use the inner race. They are still on nails in the rear of the shop, probably nearly a hundred of them organized by size from 3/4" to monster Mack 8'ers. I just used one last week..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted October 27, 2007 Share Posted October 27, 2007 You can buy a Snap-On wrench for $25????? ya friggin' tightwad /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif Well, $25 was an arbitrary number I pulled out of my ass. I read you reply and clicked on over to the Snap-on catalog which by the way did not list the very wrench I mentioned, BUT, one size down the price was $87! For a wrench! Granted mine was purchased long before flank drive but sheeesh! No wonder I only own a few Snap-On wrenches. I guess I have ALWAYS been a tightwad. My daughters are gonna hate me when they get older. Mama better get a job in a few years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DwayneGorniak Posted October 28, 2007 Share Posted October 28, 2007 I started out in the trade by buying a Craftsman master mechenic starter kit. I still have every single tool of that kit in my box to this day. Over the years I have bought alot of Snapon tools off the truck and from the pawn shop whenever I can. Anything off the truck is usually a specialty tool. I have also bought Westward tools and the Canadian tire Professional Series wrenches that Jim mentioned. My Dad had tons of Westward tools on the farm and still has them all. I keep the Canadian tire wrenches at home now because the open ends suck. They spread more than a cheap whore on a street corner with a dyin urge for a fix. Out of all the wrenches and basic hand tools, I prefer the Craftsman. Some people will argue till they are blue in the face that Snapon wrenches are the absolute best and nothing compares to them. Bahhh Humbug. I cannot stand the feel of my snapon metric wrenches in my hands when they are full of diesel oil and I can't grip them anymore. I love my Craftsman wrenches. When they are covered in oil, I can still hang on to them. And don't go thinking that I leave my tools oily and dirty. I am extremely anal about cleanliness and proper care of my tools. I can put the open end of my Craftsman wrenches on a nut or bolt and smack the hell out of the other end with a hammer and never spread a wrench. And I have yet to this day ever had to replace one of my Craftsman wrenches. However, My Snapon Metrics are nice and thin in the heads. But so are my KD Gearwrenches. And if KD Gearwrenches would have been out before I bought my Snapon metric wrenches, I might not have ever bought the Snapon wrenches. But then again I paid only ten dollars at the pawn shop for the whole metric set. I still push apprentices to go to Sears and buy Craftsman master kits to start out with. Alot of the apprentices over the years have done just that and still have them all. You cannot beat the Unconditional Lifetime Warranty and the price. Just my /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/2cents.gif P.S: You can't beat a Snapon box though. I've had cheapies and Mac. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted October 28, 2007 Author Share Posted October 28, 2007 Ahhhh, yes... the toolbox.... I always advise would be purchasers to compare the shipping weights when they are considering similar boxes. The heavy one isn't made out of tin foil. I will admit I purchased my latest toolbox more by price than anything.... already into my 50s, my 20+ year old SnapOn was just plain worn out. The box I would have liked cost more than my first BRAND NEW CAR!!!! If my current "main" box lasts as long as my last one, I'll be almost 80 when I have to replace it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErickBaker Posted October 28, 2007 Share Posted October 28, 2007 I recently read a "discussion" you were having over at FlatRate.com that was very similiar to this one. You really took some heat for trying to impart a little knowledge on that kid. I'll admit to "blindly climbing up on the tool truck" though, but I'm young and think I'll be able to kick the habit. It doesn't take much to rack up a sizeable account on the truck that will eat a paycheck. I never had anyone preach the benefits of off-brand tools to me, but I guess I should have noticed those Kobalt wrenches in my mentor's box. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted October 29, 2007 Author Share Posted October 29, 2007 Eric... there isn't one amongst us that hasn't entered that "alternate universe" known as the tool truck . I'm like a crow... if it's pretty and especially if it's shiny - it will be mine. Both MAC and Snappy visit our shop regularly and I usually owe 1 or 2 hundred to either or both. Offer up payment in full and they can't seem to make that transaction in your bay - you HAVE to enter the tool truck . And, with both feet firmly on that slippery slope, we prove, once again, that we have all kinds of willpower.... but no wontpower. I've never resorted to company financing... I pay my bills good enough and quick enough that our toolmongers will carry me "on the cuff"... and this is a double whammy.... It can be hard to resist when the pusherman sticks that shiny toy in your hand and says "I'll catch you next trip".... For one of my hobbies, I'm an avid woodworker... there is no end to what damage you can do to your budget with this monkey on your back. Woodworking toys are more proliferous (and generally spendier) than their mechanical cousins.... Sh!t... now I feel like going tool shopping. Time for a "fix".... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony302600 Posted November 1, 2007 Share Posted November 1, 2007 I swear by my matco toolboox. U figure the amount of times we open, close, the amount of weight on the drawers, my craftsman help up 6months. Now i have a huge matco proffesional box and sit on one of the small drawers for lunch. "The box doesnt make you money," it does when ure not fighting with it to open up one of the overloaded drawers on which the bearings gave out and wont budge. I dislike snap-on, mac tool boxes. Snapon seems as cheap as my old craftsman in build quality. I just plain dont like mac. Matco is the ultimate tool in my opinion, their impact swivel sockets are the best in the business, i love their wrenches. I love snap-on screwdrivers, they just fit perfect in my hand and the ability to add a wrench for extra turning torque has helped me out a lot. I still use a lot of craftsman tools, and would rec. them to anyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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