deezul Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 I have a 2002 F350 that has an intermittent P1211 code, CEL, lack of power and smokes. When unit is shut off and restarted CEL is cleared and issue no longer exists. Checked fuel pressure at pump and both heads (under load), verified any form of restriction in tank (none present), monitored ICP and IPR correlation as well as oil aeration test, verified level in resevoir as well as level in pan. Do not have tools to block off heads to check pump pressures/leaks but ICP side of system appears to be operating properly. Max duty cycle on IPR reads 36% under WOT. My IPR sometimes reads less than 8% at idle but rarely and only a reading of 7.9% (nothing terribly drastic). Oil aeration test shows ICP never exceeding 1470PSI at 3400RPM for 3-5mins. Only issues found were ICP sensor leaking internally forcing oil out of connector and up pig tail (components replaced). Replaced IPR with spare known good regulator. Replaced RH check valve as fuel pressure on RH head was extremely low under load. When condition occurs unit acts as if it is starving for fuel and boost (yet, it smokes), develops a severe lack of power and a miss at idle. As mentioned, with a restart the issue seems to be resolved, sometimes for ten minutes, sometimes for 10 seconds. When performing an injector contribution test with CEL on, code P0284 is present. Could it possibly be an injector sticking momentarily? Hard to remove valve covers and duplicate concern to see if spill port on injectors are leaking(issue can only be duplicated on road test). Have read other posts but still cannot find too much information relating to my issue. Have read the "Technician's High Pressure Pump guide for the 7.3" and still haven't found any relating information. Not overly familiar with 7.3's and I don't like throwing parts at anything (unless they are my "tester" parts) or I can prove the part/system was faulty. Thanks for your help in advance! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Amacker Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 Wow, this sounds like a tough one and it looks like you've done your homework. The 1211 and your problem don't add up unless the injector O-rings are leaking at WOT/high ICP, but then it still wouldn't make sense because your IPR command is nice and low. It sounds to me like you're chasing a set of injectors. What is MFDES at a hot idle? Usually it's 8-10 but if it's starving for fuel (from bad injectors) it can climb higher. Suck the FF housing dry, get a bottle of Stanadyne Performance Formula (or PM-17-A, or F8AZ-9C077-AA) and fill the FF housing with it. Immediately start it and run/drive it to see if it runs differently. If it does, it's either bad fuel or bad injectors. 7.3s are old now, and if it hasn't had a set of injectors it needs them. My money's on injectors or a bad IDM or (even smaller) PCM. I have seen IDMs cause this problem- do you know of one to try? Too bad you're across the border, I have both of them I could loan you (and a OPR for MChan). I think you've done enough to "probably" rule the 1211 as a ghost code. You might want to ground the IPR return wire momentarily which should produce 4K of ICP or more. I have "heard" once or twice of 1211 ghost codes from fuel starvation but never experienced it myself. I'll think about this one some more and see what pops up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fredsvt Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 Very odd, your description fits fuel tank restriction, but you've checked and cleared that. I've seen the P1211 a bunch of times when the tank screens plug, and they do run as you've described and smoke like crazy (blue-white). Then idle very rough, and clear up after a time if they aren't completely restricted if you let them idle or shut them off. The last truck I had, a 2002 E450 with the large aft axle tank had rusted so badly that the pickup screen was completely stuffed with crap and the fuel level dropped low enough (bad sender) that the bypass couldn't pull fuel, and the truck barely ran. I agree with Bruce about the injectors. How does the beast start after an overnight soak? I've seen some so bad that at an ambient of 20C they won't start due to the injectors not delivering fuel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 When I see a P1211 on a 7.3, the absolute, without a doubt, very first thing I look for is a chip sticking out of the back of the PCM.... well, after I check engine oil level.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshbuys Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 Do you have an injector kill box you can hook up, I'm leaning towards injectors myself, I've seen it multiple times, had one a while back that had this code, initial diag - tank coming apart, wiped out fuel pump, replaced pump, tank, filter, flushed lines, good for 2 days, came back with a P1211 in it again, and ended up needing 3 injectors as proved with the kill box. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deezul Posted August 2, 2011 Author Share Posted August 2, 2011 Unfortunately I have no injector kill box, we don't have much left for tools in the seven three department. This truck at hot idle has a MFDES of .10 - .11gr. This truck doesnt run a chip and has no starting issues either. When the issue starts occuring just a shut off/restart (even going down the highway) and the truck is back up to full power/no "limp mode/lack of power" issue. I am going to recheck tank restriction but other than injectors, I'm somewhat stumped. When the issue is occuring I can also retrieve a code for injector #8 contribution/balance. This unit has 182,000kms on it. I was thinking the issue might be related to cold vs hot but on my last road test it acted up on my way to (from a cold start) but no concerns on my back. Re-verified tank restriction - 1" on key on, 0" while running and under load. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselD Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 build your own cancel box. I did mine for next to zero cost. The biggest trick was finding both 60pin connectors but its really as simple as conencting some wires and adding switches. It has saved my ass more times then I can count Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deezul Posted August 2, 2011 Author Share Posted August 2, 2011 Any chance you could post some information or pictures of said cancel box? I really have no idea what it would or does look like, I just know when I ask, nobody knows where it could or would be or even if we have one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselD Posted August 3, 2011 Share Posted August 3, 2011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselD Posted August 3, 2011 Share Posted August 3, 2011 sorry for the lousy pictures but they are from my phone which I had to post via my phone as our firewall blocks photohosting anywhere. There used to be instructions floating around somewhere I thought which I came across after I built mine. I remember rotunda wanting like 1500bucks for this same thing back in the day. In short you get both male and female 60pin connectors(your main engine harness connector on driverside valve cover) you take all the injector wires and run them to your switches mounted in your box and all other wires that pass through the 60pin you loop back on itself. Really all you are doing in plugging your "switch box" inline of the engine harness so you can flip the switch and kill one injector at a time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff_E Posted August 3, 2011 Share Posted August 3, 2011 I recently had a P1211 resulting from a restricted oil pickup tube in the pan from silicone chunks from a recent oil pan job. If you have an oil pressure gauge, install it in the HP Reservoir plug and road test the truck until the problem happens. This will rule out whether or not your hp pump is starving for oil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deezul Posted August 5, 2011 Author Share Posted August 5, 2011 I've got a cancel box rigged up now, we will see how it goes this afternoon. Still scratchin' my head on this one. Will also check oil pressure at hpop during concern. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deezul Posted August 5, 2011 Author Share Posted August 5, 2011 What pressures should I be seeing (what numbers are you guys seeing?) with my gauge in the HPOP resevoir port? at hot idle I'm seeing 22-25psi (wsm states 10 psi at curb idle), on the highway at wot,it's around 40 psi (wsm states 40-70psi).. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Amacker Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 Sounds good. Make sure it doesn't fall off at highway speeds from a restricted screen on the pickup tube. Good Luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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