early 99 help, a bit long

Fredsvt · June 1, 2017

Truck is an F250, 7.3 auto. 120k on it.

On it's FOURTH engine. How this guy has done what he's done, I don't quite get.

First 2 engines let go under warranty, both broke crankshafts, or so the owner says.

Third engine let go, supposedly in the same way. He was told the torque converter was bad then (rattles) and he had it replaced. (the "new" one rattles)

Here's where I have gotten involved, unfortunately. The engine is used, out of an International truck. It's that metallic appearing blue, with the Ford valve covers, upper HP reservoir, fuel filter housing and wastegated turbo on it from what I can tell. It appears it did have a mechanical tandem pump and someone rammed a brass core plug in the pump's mounting hole.

It came in a while ago for uvc harness and gasket meltdown (single connector cover gaskets)

Now, it seems to need injectors, runs horrible cold, misfire and gradually picks up, but low power and heavy smoke unloaded at 2200 rpm.

Here's where the issues comes in, it runs on start up much like an early '95, with that romp, romp romp and eventual settle down even hot. While in the valve covers, I'm unsure if it has the correct injectors for what it really is as well as the proper HP pump for the injectors it is supposed to have.

The letter codes were AD iirc. All 8. I remember early dit 7.3s were AA, then they went to AB, was there ever and AC injector? In the last couple of years they used AD, with the LL or AE injector in cylinder 8.

The guy said it ran ok with the "blue" engine until the past few winters where it ran worse and worse.

Any help for my now foggy memory would be a great help.

Jeff_E · June 1, 2017

Found this info posted by RT at The Diesel Stop:

"A and AA injectors came in the '94-'97 non-california trucks. They are all 90cc injectors and are single shots.

AB injectors came in the '97 cali, and all early '99 trucks. They are split shot injectors meaning they fire a small pilot shot before the main shot. These injectors flow 130-135cc of fuel.

AC injectors are found in the high torque version of the T444E and do not come in any Powerstrokes. They have the same internals as the AB injectors with the exception of the single shot plunger and barrel. However due to them being single shot injectors they flow 160cc. This is due to the way the split shots work. They have a small passage that opens, much like a port in a two stroke engine, that are uncovered that bypass the injection pressure out the side of the barrel instead of out the end through the nozzle. Because of this pause a portion of the travel of the plunger does nothing for injecting fuel so a split shot injects less fuel for the same amount of travel as a single shot.

AD injectors are also split shot but flow 135-140cc of fuel due to a slightly longer plunger stroke. These are found in all late '99-'03 Powerstrokes and T444Es.

AE and AF injectors are essentially the same as AD injectors but were called a long lead injector that was used as an attempt to cure a "cackle" issue many people complained about."

KDS · June 1, 2017

I still see plenty of 7.3L / T444E engines.

I have an IH school bus here now for inj's (444).

Sounds like quite a history on that truck. I can't recall seeing a broken crank on one of those.

Ideally, It should finish getting "converted". I don't know about the pump.

You might check with Alliant, www.alliantpower.com I think there may be some interchange / crossover data there.

There are also different IPR's (some had edge filters)

In Ford trim, That probably had split shot inj's. Of course, You'll need the correct IDM to go with it.

You could probably just order inj's by VIN and be OK.

ktmlew · June 2, 2017

Sounds like something is out-of-balance if cranks keep breaking. Plus you should have the AC injectors in that motor. Need to ID the build date on the engine and work from there. Have to match Ford parts. Pump/IPR/injectors/IDM/PCM programming. Gonna be ugly.

Jeff_E · June 2, 2017

^ You mean AB injectors right?

forddieseldoctor · June 2, 2017

Are they running a chip?

As long as the hpop has the right angle or a greater angle than factory it should be fine. The early 99's had a 15 degree pump and the late 99's switched to a 17 degree pump.

If I recall correctly after 97 all the ipr valves are the same. (I know someone will correct me if I'm wrong)

The injectors in the early 99 are supposed to be split shots according to the 98-99 coffee table book. If the chamber size is different as long as the nozzles are the same as the original injectors it will never know the difference.

The idm will be compatible other than maybe a lower voltage output than what the "blue motor" was designed to run with, but it will run normal. (I've used an idm out of a 97 in an 02 in a pinch and I could not tell the difference and there was no light)

I guess if it were in my bay I wouldn't get too worked up over the transplant and I would diagnose it like it was normal. But when it comes down to replacing injectors I would push like hell for a full set so that they all match.

Fredsvt · June 3, 2017

It's coming in on Tuesday, ran the vin, based on the very early pro date, our Ford parts guy says it should have AB injectors in it.... I swear I saw AD injectors in it.

Supposedly, the set was replaced between engine 3 and this one. Based on what the owner said he paid for a set of 8, they were used or some off brand remans. He's going to bring all the paperwork for all the engines that have been put in it.

I'm going to look at this thing more closely to see what's been swapped from the Ford version to this one.

I'm getting tired of fixing other's abortions. Seems like that's all that's been coming in lately.

Matt Saunoras · June 3, 2017

That's all I get anymore I swear. The crap no one else can fix. I can't seem to think of the last diesel job I did that wasn't a huge pain in the ass waste of time.

Fredsvt · June 6, 2017

Thanks to all that replied. Truck is fixed.

We found some information that was pivotal in the history of this thing...

The AD injectors that were in it, weren't. They said AD, but that was meaningless after I found the receipt for the "Swampy High Performance" injectors in the console.

At some point, after the last engine let go, and the used blue engine was installed, he had someone, who he won't admit to, put in the above injectors.

My boss called the shop that installed the engine to get some information. They said, those injectors were not put in by them.

He then called the local hp diesel parts place, and they told us the Swampy injectors all come with either a programmer or a chip to install in the PCM as the factory PCM program will not work, it'll lope (yes), it will smoke excessively (yes), it won't idle smooth (yes) and it won't have any power at anything below 2800 rpm (yes) if the injectors are installed without the chip/programmer.

In went a set of Alliant new AB injectors (proper for it's early pro-date). HUGE difference. Truck actually runs as it should.

lmorris · June 7, 2017

Nothing chaps my ass more than when customers intentionally leave out information about past repairs, usually because they are too embarrassed to admit they tried to do it themselves and didn't do it correctly. I hope you charged this guy for all the time you had into it.

RyanG · June 7, 2017

I would love to know how you break 4 7.3s in 120k. I gotta hand it do ya, you have a lot of patience. I would of quoted a drop in or go somewhere else.

Fredsvt · June 8, 2017

I didn't get into asking or pushing for the information on what happened to each motor. It's gone, hopefully for a good long time.

But then, I get another, 2000, customer says it's sluggish, when pulling his supposed 8k horse trailer. I rode the brakes on this F250 to make the motor work, no bogging, or sluggishness. Proper boost, etc. Found some other maintenance issues, and he approved that.

Found the reason he thought it was sluggish, ask it's sluggish in comparison to WHAT. His friend has a 440 hp 6.7.... DUH. Only just about double the 225 hp of his old 7.3.

Matt, check the base oil pressure hot on that old 7.3. I've seen them with very worn oil pumps that only have 5 - 10 psi at hot idle, and on shut down, the oil from the hp reservoir somehow finds itself back in the pan. Had an E van with the worst hot engine lower end knock, it had 6 psi at 220 oil temp. After an 8 hour shut down, the reservoir would drain out. That one would start briefly, die from lack of ICP and not restart as it would lose the batteries before it could rebuilt base oil pressure and fill the reservoir. I'm sure the very worn lower end wasn't helping it.