JoeR

I could use some help.  I've got a 2016 F250 that had a CNG conversion on it.  It was sold at auction to a used car lot.  That used car lot removed the obvious CNG stuff thinking it would be impossible to sell like that.  They left behind the add-on CNG processor, the intake manifold with CNG injectors and the add-on engine harness.  It now has a Check engine lamp with codes for missing  fuel tank switch and indicator lamp.  It won't pas emission inspection like this so it has to be fixed.

I called the manufacturer and installer of the system.  There was a bit of a language barrier, but they told me I could just return the PCM to stock programming and it should clear those codes.  They said I'd have to program it like I was installing a used PCM because it  was tuner locked.  I checked with my HP Tuner and it is definitely locked.  The IDS does not identify it when I try to start a new session.  The problem I can't get past is when it asks for the VIN, it doesn't recognize it, and then it asks me for the PCM number, Cal code or Tear Tag.  It won't recognize any of those either.  I've tried it a dozen times and can't get past there.  Before I just install a new PCM, is  there anything else I need to do to reprogram a tuner locked PCM?

Any advice is welcome.

Joe

I've been using high pressure smoke ( up to 120 psi) for finding boost leaks and air brake leaks for about 15 years.   They are definitely nice to have.  the only down side is that once the pressure starts getting up there, the smoke will blow away from where the leak is.  If you're in tight quarters, the leak  appears to be coming from a different area than what it is.  Thankfully you can get oil with dye in it.  The fluorescent dye will deposit at the site of the leak.   Sometimes soapy water can help too.  

Joe

Thanks for the help.

Did not show connected.  

Definitely has the latest update.

On 10/26/2020 at 3:08 PM, 8WA Sman said:

So did you use the other shops VCM only?

Nope.   I grabbed his VCM and cable.   Never thought about swapping cables until after I left. 

Joe

Just wondering if there is a problem with my VCM2 or my cable.  I can't communicate with any 7.3 truck but the 6.7s are no problem at all.  I grabbed an IDS from a shop around the corner and it works fine on both trucks.  

If it was a Snap-on scanner I'd suspect the cable long before I suspected the scanner.  I can't get back to those trucks for a couple of weeks to test it, so I figured I'd ask the experience of the group.  Ever seen a bad cable or VCM2?

Joe

Nice!

I finally got this truck back, but only because it came back on a hook.  The OSS sensor on the trans died and left him stranded.  He's back on the road because he needs the truck every day.  It still sets the same crank/cam code as soon as the engine starts.  I recorded the crank/cam relation with a scope.  I did it with the engine running, but also did it while cranking and at shutoff in case it helped rattle something loose.  It never wavered.  

So the plot thickens on this.  It sets a cam/crank correlation code and the cam/crank correlation is spot on.  The owner is unconcerned about it, as it's not causing any performance problems, but I'd sure like to get it figured out eventually.  

Keith,

I'm going to buy a lottery ticket tonight.  I just witnessed something I thought I'd never see:  A guy that worked on 6.0s complaining about something on a Cummins!  

I do agree that that bolt sucks sometimes.  I wouldn't trade with you though.  

Glad it worked out.

Joe

It does not include diag time.  To quote it, it says:

Includes all procedures to R&I VGT Actuator, perform adjustments, inspect for fluid leaks and proper engine operation.

Diag time is not listed.  Info came from Mitchell.

Joe

It pays 1.6 hours to remove, reinstall and recalibrate the Turbo actuator.

Joe

What vehicle?  I'll look it up.

Joe

1 hour ago, Bruce Amacker said:

I'm not familiar with the extra pin in the picture, and it definitely looks magnetic by the junk stuck to it. Have you tried grabbing it with a magnet on a stick?

 

The 2008 engine will start and run with the CMP disconnected, I've done it before.  The ECM guesses (50% chance) on which stroke the crank is on and fires injectors until it starts.

 

Here's 15 slides from my DT program that are relevant including a CMP/CKP waveform, pictures and other good stuff. The scope wave is from an '07 so the pinout is different but the wave should be the same.

 

IMO, I wouldn't get upset about the noise in your CMP waveform, that is likely normal or a result of your scope settings being set too sensitive. Where were your scope leads? Did you do a CMP/CKP dual trace? In the attached waveform I had my negative scope leads on the battery negative terminal to dampen noise.

 

Your "initial sweep" also seems correct- always look at whether the initial sweep is up or down compared to a known good.  If someone changes the pigtail and switches polarity the sweep reverses.  The engine starts and runs, but poorly.  BTDT, surprised I still have hair after that one.

Sidebar: The scope trainers tell you that the initial waveform can be determined from looking at the ski which has + and - terminals labeled on a PM generator sensor.  Sure enough, they're labeled on Ford and IH skis but the waveform doesn't correlate.

 

Do you have engine skis and the coffee table books for this engine?

 

 

Joe R DTS delete.pdf 1.96 MB · 3 downloads

hi Bruce,

I tried moving the extra button with a pick.  It didn't move with reasonable force.

Thanks for the lab scope pattern.  I'll do the crank/cm comparison and report back.  

This truck would start without the cam sensor plugged in, but it wouldn't run for more than about 10 seconds, then it would shut off like to turned the key off.  

Speaking of shutting off, I was unable to change the time for the engine idle shutdown timer on this truck.  You can set it to any time you'd like, but you only get 5 minutes whether you like it or not.  Multiple scanners were used, including OEM.  I even tried sliding the min CTS and IAT to disable it, but it didn't change a thing.  Not the first Maxxforce I've seen do that.  The PCM had the latest Cal in it, so maybe it's that way on purpose.

I do not have the skis or coffee table book for this engine.  

Thanks everyone for the help on this.  I appreciate it.

That known good crank/cam correlation pattern is where I need to check next.  

Joe

11 hours ago, 8WA Sman said:

Joe,

Got a Vin and Engine serial #. I ran a Vin from a 2008 that I found online and came up with a 1835985C92 for a cam sensor. Looks similar to a 6.0L sensor is it just me or does that piece look wedged in there?

Thanks for the part number.  I do have the VIN. It is 1HTWGAZT98J039297.

Like you, I'm undecided if it is a little crooked.  I didn't care much about it at the time because I was concentrating on what would be causing the extra spikes in the waveform.  The truck is setting a Cam Sync code.  The waveform at TDC looks good, so I was looking for other stuff.  However, you may be on to something.  If that button is not centered perfectly that might cause the code, or at least give us a valid reason to pull the cover.  

Here's a few more pics of it.  

13 hours ago, forddieseldoctor said:

Do you have a pic of the old sensor or what was left of it?

And what is the flat surface on the right side of the picture? Is that the bearing journal?

Sorry.  Don't have a pic of the old cam sensor,  The customer pulled more guts out of it before he came in with it, so I don't know what condition it came out of the motor.

The pic was taken in the cam sensor hole.  I believe it should have a single button in it like in the pic here.  However it appears there are 2 cam buttons in there and one of them is offset.  I've never seen anything like that, and it was one of the reasons I was posting here.  I can't imagine why there'd be more than one in there, but they are both solidly mounted.

Joe

The rest of the gear face looked great.  No foreign objects or anything that might cause any noise.  The second button was not movable with a metal pick, so I just don't know what's going on there.

Thanks for the reply.

Joe

One pic shows the debris.  Next is after I wiped it off.  no other debris was evident as we barred the engine over.  It all looked great.

the 2 buttons do not appear to be the same height, and one is offset from the center, but again, the lab scope shows a great TDC pattern.  It just has extra ones.

Today I looked at a 2008 International 7400 with a Maxxforce DT.  As soon as you start the engine is sets a 4552, Loss of CMP Sync.

The engine had a new OEM CMP sensor.  The owner replaced it after the original one fell apart.  This code was new after replacing the sensor.

I threw moy scope on it and noticed a lot of noise on the circuit.  The noise is enough that I believe it could cause a sync error, and it is WAY noisier than the crank sensor.  Images attached.  With all the noise, ad the way the old CMP sensor had unraveled, I thought maybe there was still some debris on the cam gear.  I put my borescope on it.  There was a little debris on the cam button, but not enough to make the noise I was seeing.

the other thing that is strange is that there appears to be more than one cam button in it, but that isn't reflected in the signal.  It just has lots of noise, not a strange pulse at TDC.

So I have 2 questions:  Has anyone ever seen a double cam button on one of these like this?  Has anyone ever noticed that much noise on a CMP circuit of one of these?  I'm not sure what to chase next on this.  I doubt the new CMP sensor is the problem, but that's a lot of noise.

Borescope pics in next post.

Any advice appreciated.

Joe

Or put some boost in it.  Make or buy a set of adapters and use an air pressure regulator to pressurize it.  If you want an official way to do it, get a high pressure smoke machine.  They will even tell you if you have a leak or not.  

Thanks for the update, Bill.  It's always nice to know how it turned out.

Joe

Nice!

I had a couple of large training classes scheduled at Colleges.  The schools closed and we had to cancel.  So I always have new or Beta products to test, so I hit the shops near me to look for broken cars.  The independent shops are still busy.  The public garages, like the DOT, County Shop, City Shop, etc, are all on lockdown.  No outside vendors allowed.  

It's going to be an interesting few weeks if I can't go visit customers.  

It's also tough to travel when all the restaurants are closed.  You can always do takeout, but I'm not a fan of eating in a hotel room.  There's no higher concentration of human waste bacteria than a hotel room.

Joe

....and now a new, curious behavior has emerged. The hoarding of toilet paper, and anything else people can wipe their ass on, across the Country.  

On 3/12/2020 at 12:29 PM, Keith Browning said:

...you have some guys on a popular television show making it look like all the black smoke belching from trucks is terrific fun and perfectly okay.

I've always found these little mini-cultures interesting.  Humans are hard wired to mimic the behaviors of others.  Sometimes is results in some whacky stuff.

Consider that at some point someone thought it was a great idea to drop their pants and pull their underwear up, and then walk around like that.  Now there are a ton of people that do it too.  They are all 100% convinced they look good, and are totally cool.  To everyone else they look like idiots, but it doesn't matter to them.  

The guys riding cruiser style motorcycles dress up in pirate costumes.  Again, they are totally convinced they look like badasses.  And while some of them are badasses, they still look like a kid in a pirate costume.  

A top contender for the dumbest copied behavior is the guys that do the Carolina squat on their trucks.  Those things look like a female dog taking a leak, but again, they think it is 100% cool.  There's no convincing one of those guys that it doesn't.

This brings us to the rolling coal folks.  To everyone else their truck looks like it is a broken, worn out POS when it smokes like that.  Fogging out pedestrians and Prius owners makes them look like a total pansy while crapping on someone from the safety of their truck, and then generally running away.  To the people that know how to make power in a diesel they look like hacks.  You can make gobs of power with a diesel without having to over-fuel them that badly, and belching smoke makes you look like the kid that sawed their exhaust off their Honda to gain more power.

There are tons of other little sub cultures like this, and while plenty of them serve a purpose, not all of those purposes are obvious.  They are fun to watch though.

Joe

I figure it's easier to revive an old thread than start a new one of the same topic, so here goes.

I came across another 2016 with a P2002.  This one was kinda cool.  It blew out the matting around the DPF.  It had a few blown out tubes, but nothing horrendous.  The soot out the tailpipe was a sticky mess, so it looks like it has a popped EGR cooler, and the matting around the DPF suffered as a result.  So this one is getting a new DPF and is requiring a bit more detective work to find the source of the sticky soot.  Here's some pics.

Joe

3.bmp

4 hours ago, Keith Browning said:

Yes, this is a 6.7L Power Stroke. The Cummins was it's last Ford in 2015.

Well I'm sorry to see the Cummins go.  I like them.  Too bad it took me 5 years to figure it out!!  :-)

At least my advice holds true then.  The calibrated value they talk about is derived from the MAF.  At least that's the way it is with other engines.  If it's scaled wrong you will get MAF/MAP error codes.  On gas engines they will kill the throttle for you too.

Joe