JoeR

Thanks for this, Matt. This is EXACTLY half of the problem. Good guys go someplace else, forced there by economics and self preservation. Making retirement plans is not a luxury any more. If you don't have a plan, you're going to have a tough time of things when you retire. Joe

Thanks Keith. I used to work as a Tech too. I started as a dealership tech (mostly GM stuff), and spent some time in independent shops too. The problem is certainly not isolated to dealers. It exists in independent and fleet shops too. My buddy runs a high end shop in NY ( www.cantechautomotive.com ) . Try finding guys that are qualified to work on Ferraris and Porsches! I used to teach with a guy that instructed since the 60s. He was a pretty quiet guy, but spoke up one day when we were having the exact same conversation at lunch. Fran said "The difference in students today is that they need step by step instructions on everything." He said years ago a truck could come to the shop to deliver an engine. You could tell 2 kids "Get that engine off the truck for me, please." They would: Go find the fork lift. Grab the engine off the truck. Uncrate it. Unwrap it. Find the cherry picker. Find a chain. Find the right bolts to mount it. Hoist it and, Put it on a stand. Today, you'd have to tell them every single step, and they'd stand around doing nothing until you instructed them on the next step. Of course, any time you make general statement like this, you are making errors. There are a lot of good kids around, and some with excellent talent. I have a shop at my house, and I've worked with 2 youngsters over the years. Both of them were very talented. Both of them went on to become techs, even though that wasn't my intention. If you think things are bad in the dealers, you'd be shocked at what it looks like in the heavy duty fleet shops. I couldn't begin to tell you what is there without you thinking I was making it all up. Joe

There are lots of different points of view and opinions on this. I'll give you mine. I taught Automotive at a State College in NY for 6 years. Before and after that, I worked for Snap-on as a diagnostic sales and training guy. So I think I have a decent view of the kids coming in, and of the shops buying diagnostic equipment. Incoming students have changed over the last 25 years. Today you could hand a scanner to a kid that has never seen one before in his life. He would be able to turn it on and navigate the software, with no instruction, within 15 minutes of touching it. That same kid, however, couldn't put a headlight bulb in without being wet-nursed through every single step. They are comfortable with electronics, and can't operate a screwdriver. They are tough to coach without injuring their feelings. An awful lot of the good technicians don't stay in the business long. Some of my best students left the industry to become prison guards, linemen, construction equipment operators and a long list of other jobs that have better benefits. 3 of my former students work for Snap-on as sales reps. As long as there are other jobs that require less skill and pay a lot more, we are going to have trouble keeping talent. Flat rate pay, low warranty times, no overtime pay, weekend work, little or no retirement plans and little vacation time will drive talent out. Nintendo and X-Box will continue to keep kids from going outside, which in turn keeps them from fixing their bicycles, minibikes, go-carts and eventually cars. It's a lot tougher to learn how to turn a screwdriver when you're 18 than it is when you are 8. We aren't the only industry with this problem. I absolutely LOVED teaching college. I had a knack for it, had a good team, and doubled the size of the program. I left because of the terribly low pay. Many other teachers do the same thing. The bottom line is economic, as always. Want to attract and keep talent? Make it worth their while. Joe

Wiring diagram attached. Here's a service bulletin that applies to 2010 and older ones, but it might work on yours too. Do you have a scanner that will communicate with the Body control module? Power Liftgate Inoperative With DTC B153A Models:2007 -2010 Cadillac Escalade and Escalade ESV 2007-2010 Chevrolet Avalanche, Tahoe, Suburban 2007-2010 GMC Yukon, Yukon XL, Denali, Denali XL 2007- 2010 Cadillac SRX 2008-2010 Buick Enclave 2007-2010 GMC Acadia 2007-2010 Saturn Outlook 2009 Chevrolet Traverse 2010 Cadillac CTS Wagon with Power Lift Gate (RPO E61) Condition/Concern: Some customers may state that the power liftgate (RPO E61) is inoperative. After initial diagnosis, you may find a current or history DTC: B153A set in the power liftgate control module. After inspecting parts returned to the warranty parts center, we have found several power liftgate control modules returned with no trouble found. Recommendation/Instructions: Please use the following information below when diagnosing an inoperative liftgate with DTC: B153A set. 1. Disconnect the connector at the liftgate latch assembly. With the liftgate latch connector disconnected, the 3 signals for the ratchet, pawl, and the sector should be inactive on the scan tool. 2. Install a 3A fused jumper wire between each signal circuit terminal (for the pawl, sector, and ratchet) and the ground circuit terminal 2. Monitor the scan tool as each individual circuit is jumpered to ground, the scan tool should read "active". 3. If either test above fails, check the wiring for the signal circuits, low reference circuit, or try a power liftgate control module from a known good vehicle. 4. If both test's above pass, monitor the internal switch inputs in the liftgate latch assembly for proper operation. • A) With the liftgate in the open position, the ratchet and the pawl should read "active" and the sector should read "inactive" • With the liftgate in the secondary latched position, the pawl should read "Inactive" and the ratchet and sector should read "active" • C) With the liftgate fully closed, the pawl, ratchet, and the sector should all read "inactive" 5. If one of the internal liftgate latch assembly switch inputs are not reading correctly in one of the positions above and the vehicles passes test 1 and 2 above. Replace the liftgate latch assembly. Please follow this diagnostic or repair process thoroughly and complete each step. If the condition exhibited is resolved without completing every step, the remaining steps do not need to be performed #PIT4041C: Power Liftgate Inoperative With DTC B153A - keywords gate lift module rear tailgate - (Mar 11, 2010) lift gate.pdf

There are a bunch of tools out there for finding shorts, but I don't think there's anything that beats these little things. http://www.tooltopia.com/search.aspx?find=SGT25100 Even without a proper wiring diagram, which is common on emergency vehicles, it'll find the short. Just hook up the circuit breaker and follow the current pulses with the ammeter. Mine has made me look much smarter than I am on more than one occasion. For the price, no toolbox should be without one. My 2 cents (actual street value)

Any chance they mixed bias ply and radial tires front to rear? If not, they different plys? Load Range E in front with Load Range C in back? Joe

Cool. Do him a favor. Pull that injector and look in the hole. If there's a chunk of dried DEF in there, take the band clamps off, drop the tube and wash it out with water. If not, he's gonna find himself in derate again. Joe

Those will read the J1939 HD Standard Data. It's kinda like OBD2 Generic Data for trucks. However there are a LOT more available PIDs. You should be able to see the EGTs, and maybe one NOx sensor. I think that's about it though. I don't recall ever seeing NOx adaptation in HD Standard. It will be interesting to see what they find with it. Joe

Funny thing is that they make such a big deal about folks not getting ripped off, while they are ripping you off. The same OBD2 bluetooth adapter is available one EBay for under $10.00. They are charging $60. Love it. Joe

Unfortunately I see it all the time. It's not a terrible code to diagnose on these. Cummins gives you NOx in and NOx out of the SCR. They also give you NOx adaptation factor on both sensors. When a Cummins has trouble with NOx conversion, they begin shifting the NOx adaptation number. With that data and EGTs, it's not that bad to diagnose. I read the Freeze Frame to see what NOx adaptation is. If it's off by more than 100 ppm, there's trouble. I perform a DEF injector test. I never care about the fluid volume. Just the pattern. If the pressure is good during the test, the volume will be OK too (at least from what I've seen). I look inside the decomposition tube. If there's dried DEF, I remove it and clean it. If there's DEF inside the SCR, I make sure the software is current and perform the SCR System Test. The new test is hot enough for crystal sublimation, and will clean the SCR. Early calibrations only do an SCR Performance Test, with no crystal sublimation. I drive it to see if I get good NOx conversion when it is dosing DEF, and that I see a good temp rise across the SCR at the same time. Note the NOx Corrected numbers here in this Freeze Frame. Also not the SCR is not getting hot. https://www.flickr.com/photos/54428295@N05/34978734073/in/dateposted-public/ DEF Injector removed. Look inside. Lots of dried DEF deposited. https://www.flickr.com/photos/54428295@N05/34978733953/in/dateposted-public/ I have never seen a bad SCR on a Cummins, but as they get older I'm sure I will. Also good to know, if the truck has no NH3 sensor, then it is NOT a closed loop system. It makes no attempt to adapt the DEF injection rate to compensate for low NOx conversion.

1569-31 Engine Protection Torque Derate Condition Exists. 5246-0 SCR Inducement Severity Data Valid, but Above Normal, Most Severe. This code can't be cleared. In order to make it go away, and clear the derate, you have to run the SCR Performance Test, or SCR System Test (depending on which software update is in the truck). You can run the test with Cummins Insite, or a Snap-on Pro Link. Maybe others, but I don't know that for sure. Before running the test you'll need to fix it. 90% of the time I find dried DEF on the DEF Injector and lots of DEF deposited in the decomposition tube. Take it off, wash it out with water, clean the injector tip with hot water, then run the test. If it passes, the derate will clear. Joe

Wow! Glad everyone is OK. Joe

A 91 F150, in really nice shape. It was still running poorly after someone had tuned it up, installed a new distributor and most of the sensors. It did lots of dopey stuff. One second it was firing the coil in rapid succession. The next time it did it shut the injectors off. Never the same trick twice. PCM is bad. The caps leaked on the board, and one was even missing one lead. Has 2 hours in the diagnosis, but at least I didn't have to toss any parts at it.

Best of luck! The good news is that there's no shortage of work for good Diesel Techs. Joe

They didn't pull the drain plug, but the oil was not overfilled. They'll check that on Monday though. Never knew that was even possible. Great suggestion. Thanks! They pulled the cab because they couldn't find a leak and figured it was time to start taking stuff apart to diagnose it. They've got a bunch of 6.0s and 6.7s in their fleet, but not many 6.4s, so it's understandable if they're making rookie mistakes. I've done stuff equally dumb on stuff I was inexperienced on too. It is good to know that you can get to all that stuff without pulling the cab. You wouldn't think so at first glance though. It's so tight in there. They drained the cooling system and pressure tested it with a high pressure smoke machine. At 15lbs of pressure it indicates no leaks. Thanks everyone for the help. This is exactly what I was looking for. Joe

A friend at a local fleet shop has a 6.4L that has been losing coolant for a couple of weeks. With no obvious external leaks they pulled the cab to begin forensics. When they pulled the Charge Air Cooler it had over a gallon of coolant in it. I understand this is as likely as saying coolant was found in the rear tires....but I promise that it is the case. So other than discovering a wormhole in Central North Carolina, anyone have an explanation for me? There's no obvious path for the coolant to get there. Sabotage is unlikely. Real answers, as well as smart-ass comments are welcome. Joe

Hi Keith, Thanks for that. I appreciate it. I contribute any time I think I have something to add. It's tough for a guy that works on everything to know something that a Dealership Tech doesn't!! I've learned an awful lot here though. For example, you guys were seeing failing PCV Sensors long before I saw my first one. I looked a lot smarter when I did though. :-) I believe the missing post is Jeff Clyde responding to my question about how the BG guy must have loved him. Joe

Thanks Brad! I appreciate it. You're the only guy on here that I've met in person, so I figured I'd make sure nobody thought I was using the forum to promote a product. Joe

As I understand it, the cleaner is basically lye in water. It's a decently strong base, and it really does a great job dissolving carbon. You hit the nail on the head as far as I'm concerned though. The carbon has to go somewhere...and that place is the DPF. Surprisingly to me, if you run a regen and then drive them, they clean up OK. The flush takes under an hour, and if you have a DPF, no smoke. No DPF, LOTS of smoke when driving it afterwards. I didn't do before/after pics. Mostly because I wasn't trying to document it. I was giving it a try for myself. Here's a video taken by some Snap-on diagnostic guys. I don't know them (I work for the Industrial Division of Snap-on. I don't have any contact with the Transportation guys). At the 3:30 mark they show some before/after pics. My results were similar. I can't imagine it would unplug a cooler if it is plugged up inside the tubes. The cleaner can't dissolve carbon if it can't get to it. That's pretty funny. Did he ever come back to the shop? I should probably have put a disclaimer on my original post. Please don't think I'm trying to sell anyone on using them. This is a Forum for Ford Techs. I'm only a guest, and glad to be here, so I promise you won't hear any sales pitches from me! I was digging for info, to see if anyone has played with these things yet. I'm running across more of them in big fleet shops, especially school bus garages, and was curious if anyone here had tried them. I posted here for the same reason most of you do. It's not open to the general public, and the conversations don't get broadcast across the entire internet. Joe

I've never been a fan of additives or induction cleaners. I think they often do as mach damage as they do good. Opinions vary widely on this topic, so if you're a fan, I won't debate it. To each their own. That said, I've got a trusted friend that is a fan of the new Diesel EGR cleaning systems. Several companies make them, including my employer, Snap-on. I order one up and gave it a go. There's a shop near me that does a lot of diesel pickup work, so I went there and did a few trucks. Results ranged from incredibly clean, to not so clean. However, if you keep running more cleaner through there, it does dissolve the carbon. The interesting part is that if you remove the carbon from the EGR system and intake, it's gotta go somewhere. On trucks with a DPF, you really should do a Regen right after finishing the service. If not, it'll harden in the DPF. Here's a pic of as good Faceplug on a 6.7L. The guy did a service on one, then let it sit. When he got back from lunch he went for a ride and it had an obviously plugged DPF. I also got to see a stuck VGT on an ISX. Both of these were fixed with more cleaner though. Anybody fool with this stuff yet? I think it can be useful, as long as you know the dangers, and can figure out what to do when things go sideways. Pic was taken with a borescope.

Any time I see gooey soot I check to see if the EGR cooler is leaky.

Would this work? http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detail/OTC0/6969/N1000.oap?ck=Search_N1000_-1_-1&pt=N1000&ppt=C0216 Or this? http://www.gearench.com/products/titan-chain-tongs.asp

I've never had to do it on a 6.7, but on other drive-by-wire vehicles you have to let them creep a bit to get them to stall speed. It's not something I've done too many times though. At least it's free to try! :-) Joe

DEF Quality codes on a Cummins. Another plugged injector. At least the diffuser pipe and SCR are not plugged with the stuff. Close up of tip: Diffuser pipe. A little drool in there, but not bad. Crust at the entrance.

This may not be much help in your case, but about 10 years ago there was a bug in Snap-on scanners that would kill Ford diesels on a KOER Test. Not any others. It was fixed with a patch. So it is entirely possible that the programmer is causing problems, but there is also a possibility it's the scanner. I assume you're using and IDS, right? Joe