JoeR

That sure does make a mess!

Nice!  We only got about 4 inches here in NC.  Lots of ice east of me though.

I got a '99 7.3 that has all glow plugs ohming out in the k ohms. I pulled the bank 2 valve cover and glow plugs and the glow plugs all still ohm in the k ohm scale. The glow plugs do not look damaged/broke.What causes all of the glow plugs to go bad?I think I can count on one hand all the '99 and newer 7.3 glow plugs I have replced. The glow relay was bad(12 volts of voltage drop across the old relay)

It's tough to know when they all died, but if they all quit at the same time they were probably murdered.  Maybe they were boosting it at high voltage and turned they key on.  

Joe

If it has a P0420 then I would think it is trying to bring the DPF up to temp by dumping fuel down the exhaust.  That would explain the code and the fuel out the tailpipe.  I bet you are correct that it is a stock program and someone just deleted the DPF without the programmer.

Joe

I talked to a buddy today that does nothing but work on Ford Diesels.  He has an IDS.  He told me the IDS behaves the same as a Snap-on on the 6.4L.  You command a regen, the test begins like normal.  If the PCM decides a regen is not needed the test aborts in a few minutes.  

There's no shortage of IDS users on this forum, so if my buddy is incorrect, be sure to set me straight on it.  It wouldn't be the first time I was wrong.  Not even today!  :-)

Joe

The Cyl Cont screen looks comparable but the Relative Comp screen lacks easy-to-read percentage numbers per cyl which are important. I had an IQ from Nexiq on loan years ago and helped them evaluate new software written for the IH's.   It's a great tool and has terrific hardware capabilities but they don't have the software up to speed, if you ask me. If you can't run a forced regen you probably aren't getting the DPF clean.  With 5PSI at WOT it will need several regens to clean up, you will see .03-.05psi on a nice clean DPF at idle and 1-1.5psi at WOT. I've done hundreds of regens comparing before and after numbers and it usually takes a few to clean them up. Commonly the backpressure will go up after the first regen rather than down......... The IQ won't run a forced regen at all? See this old post for some captures: http://www.forddoctorsdts.com/topic/5119-64-aftertreatment-diagnostics/?hl=%2B6.4+%2Baftertreatment

 DPF backpressure looked good after one only regen.  I thought I'd have to take it out for a beating, but didn't.  The Nexiq stuff will command a regen on anything except a Cat.  That Function is part of the Aftertreatment control Module, and they haven't decided to release that. The 6.4 requires a full DPF to command a regen.  If you command a it when the DPF doesn't read "Full" then it just aborts.  On any other vehicle you can command a regen at any time.  That matches what the Snap-on scannr does.  Nexiq and Snap-on don't cooperate on scanner functionality, so with them being engineered separately but behaving the same, I assumed OEM was the same.  I'll give it a try next time I have an IDS at my disposal.That old post of yours is great.  Lots of good info there.  Thanks,Joe

 

 

 

 I knew the 6.4 wouldn't allow a regen unless the DPF was plugged.  Even though it was in derate, the DPF Data showed that it was partially filled and it wouldn't allow a regen.  I had to road test it to make it change to "Plugged". Then it regenned with no trouble.

 

Joe

 

If you had a real scan tool you could run a regen at will. PL IQ?

 

 

Really?  Both the Snap-on and Nexiq require a full DPF, only on the 6.4 though.  I was under the impression that they mocked the IDS.  Aftermarket scan tools really aren't capable of making up their own rules on output tests.  I know there is no substitute for an OEM scanner, but some of the aftermarket stuff is pretty capable.

I don't cross paths with too many 6.4s.  This one came in in derate, and had thermostat troubles.  MIL was illuminated for a while.  Customer kept driving it, not knowing the trouble it would cause him. DPF backpressure was 5+ PSI at high idle.

Thermostat and DPF Codes:

Thermostats looked like this:

I learned a lesson on this one.  I knew the 6.4 wouldn't allow a regen unless the DPF was plugged.  Even though it was in derate, the DPF Data showed that it was partially filled and it wouldn't allow a regen.  I had to road test it to make it change to "Plugged". Then it regenned with no trouble.

Joe

I checked in my junk, I have 3 known good ECMs but not sure what they fit, they are all DT466E from '97-03 IIRC.  I can sell you one reasonable, too.  Did you check what a new one costs, plus programming?  It's huge money IIRC.  I'm thinking there's a good chance I have a bolt-in-and-run-it ECM and flashing would be optional. I could send you all three and let you plug them in.  Did you check powers and grounds to the ECM?

 

Hi Bruce,

Power and grounds are good.  I didn't test them, but trust the guy that did.  I'll give the shop owner your info in case he wants to take you up on your offer.  

Joe

Here are a few screen shots to follow up on this truck.  My bet is a bad PCM.  I'll get one ordered this week.

Here is the first pedal position sensor.  the Idle Validation switch is bad.

Here is the replacement. The same codes reappeared.  We adjusted it so the IVS moved when it was closer to closed throttle.  It probably had a bad pedal assembly, but the stop doesn't look worn at all to me.  Either way, here is a scope shot of when the codes reappeared.  Nothing wrong with the signals that I can see.

Here are the J1708 signals on the 6 pin connector.  Sorry for not overlaying them.  I only had one scope lead with me.  These are bad.  Note that the second one is too high a voltage.  Bruce, this is with the dashboard unplugged.

Here is a sister truck to this one.  Note that both signals are roughly 0-4V

Joe

This truck has the hydraulic brake setup on it.  Definitely no ABS.  There are no sensors, plus it never ID'd one when the scanner functioned on it.  The dash works intermittently on it, as is common on these, but that wasn't a recent change.  I'll disconnect the dash to see if that changes anything.  Thanks AGAIN for the advice.

I'll have to check when the closed throttle voltage is now.  One of the things I did was to slot the TPS, as you mentioned, in order to get the IVS to switch closer to where you first hit the gas.  It was reaching about 25% throttle before it switched (not on the scanner.  just eyeballing it).  I haven't messed with the Baro sensor, but the 5V reference and TPS signal are perfect when truck messes up.  Can I unplug it and drive around?  If so, it's free to try.  If it was pulling the 5V reference down, it would have to be doing it faster than the lab scope can see.  It's doubtful, but anything is possible.

Joe

The truck came in for intermittent unresponsive throttle.  It has the typical IVS/TPS Code set.  The problems occur during parking lot maneuvers.  It has had an overlay harness and several TP sensors.  The original and one replacement had bad IVS Signals as seen on the scope.  Right now I can see no problem with either signal but the problem still occurs.  I was going to stress test the wiring next.

You are correct about the wiring diagrams being incorrect.  In order to find the correct signals at the PCM I had to do continuity tests to all the pins.  The IVS signal on the diagram was actually the TPS.  The IVS was the next row down.  I forgot the pin #s. 

The no Communication problem is new.  I have scanned the truck multiple times without any troubles. I go home one night and the next AM the scanner says No Comm.  I’ve used a Nexiq iQ, a Pro Link Ultra on it.  The Ultra can do Bus diagnostics.  It says J1708 is present but idle.  I scoped it and found the results listed above.   I’ll post those scope pics too in case you ever want to use them in a class.

I’ll check the power and grounds to the PCM on Monday.  If you’re willing to send me a loaner PCM, I would gladly take you up on it. I can even send you a shipping label to make it easy. 

Thanks so much for the help!!

Joe

Here is a pic of the 1st pedal position sensor. Idle Validation Switch definitely has trouble.  It would mess up during parking lot maneuvers.  

Great info. Thanks!

VIN is 1HTSCAAP3XH200130

You are correct on Model Year. 10th digit is an X, not a 3.  Thankfully I ID'd it into Mitchell by VIN, so I got the correct info even though I didn't know what I was working on.  :-)

Voltages are definitely in the ranges I posted.  I can grab the lab scope captures Monday.  

When I punch that VIN into my Mitchell it says 4000 Series - 4700.  They probably mean 4000 to 4700.  I interpreted it to mean 4000 series, 4700 specifically.  Sorry for the error.

Definitely a 6 pin.  Here's the pic I took of it.  I am recovering from a separated shoulder surgery, so I'm not good at climbing under dashboards yet. I took the pic to see what pins holes were populated.

I've got an International 4700 with a DT466 in it.  It has Pedal Position Sensor and Idle Validation Switch Codes in it that have been running me around a little.  While scanning the truck my scanner lost communication.  I tried 2 other scanners to make sure my scanner didn't die on me.  I've never put a scope on the 6 pin connector in order to diagnose a communication problem, so I'm wondering if what I'm seeing is correct.  

The connector is populated with 4 pins.  12V, Ground, J1708 Low, J1708 High.

The 12V and Ground are fine.

J1708 Low cycles 0-5V in a nice square wave, looking like any other com line.

J1708 High cycles 5-10V

This truck has no ABS or Allison Trans to pollute the signal.  It's engine only on that line.  

Any idea if those J1708 voltages are correct?

Joe

I've got a model Rider Hot Air Engine.  I didn't make it, but I purchased it from the guy that did.  It's a cool substitute for the real thing.

Mine is similar to this :  http://www.jerry-howell.com/Rider.html

Joe

Sonnax makes a slightly oversized pump bushing to cure loose fit of the converter hub. You need to do the final fit on your own.  Is this what you're looking for?

http://www.sonnax.com/parts/2048-pump-bushing

If so, I get almost all my Sonnax stuff from Transtar.

Joe

Back in the late 80s I had an Isuzu Trooper do the same thing.  They just ran a pickup tube into the tank.  No strainers on the end.  

Joe

At least he took a good beating for the post.  I doubt he will get many followers. This hack has a pretty high risk/reward ratio.  As inexpensive as DEF is, there's no reason to play games with it.

Joe

Some theories I have heard over the years: The SCR was put in front of the DPF on pickups so the extra thermal event could help keep the DPF hot. And the DPF was put in front of the SCR on the cab and chassis so it would be placed under the cab and thus factory controlled for heat shielding as there would be no control over what a body builder installed on the chassis.

That makes sense, in both cases.   Thanks!

Joe

GM puts the SCR before the DPF also.

You are correct (but you already knew that!) 

I thought Ford was the only one.   It's a great idea as long as it works....which it obviously does.

Joe

If I recall correctly weren't the early 11-12 cab and chassis vehicles the only ones with the DPF and SCR reversed?

It was my understanding that the cab and chassis has the DPF first.  Only pickups have the SCR first.

Joe

NOX-ADS-REGEN is the PID that shows the NOx Adsorber is being regenned.  That happens at temps around 1600F.  (I'm not sure if that's the textbook temp, but that's what I've observed on the Dodge Cummins.  NOx adsorbers regen in around 15 seconds.

NOX-ADS-DESULF shows when it is desulfating the NOX Adsorber.  The NOX Adsorber doesn't grab SOx emissions on purpose.  It's not a regulated emission.  Unfortunately SOx will stick to the NOx Adsorber and keep it from grabbing NOx.  SOx can be regenned, but it is at a slightly higher temp, but just as quickly.

I'm surprised to see these pids on a 6.7 Ford, if that's what it is connected to.  I didn't think they used one.  If they are using one, it would only be to grab NOx on a cold start.  Once it's running DEF is the reducer. 

While we're on the subject, can anyone tell me how Ford exhausts put the SCR system before the DPF?  They are the only ones doing it that I know of, and as far as I knew soot would pollute the SCR and keep it from working.  

Joe

Dodge has used NOx absorbers on their 6.7L engines.  VW and International too.

Joe