Keith Browning

Pete, They are noisy engines and if you had a bottom end knock you would know it, particularly off of idle. I take it this is your truck? This will be a good learning experience for you before you start to see any customer's trucks. 1100 mile's and leaking already?! Here's what you want to remember. Rear main seals generally, do not leak on this engine and should not be your first suspect. Common stuff I have been seeing is camshaft and crankshaft sensors seeping oil which runs back along the bed plate seam to the bell housing. On top of the engine I have seen loose CAC hoses leaking collected vapors that seep back across the top of the engine and down either side of the rear of the engine. Glow plug buss bars and connectors also have become a common source of oil leaks down the back of the engine as well. Look for connectors not fully seated in the cylinder head or leaking through the wiring in the center of the connector. There are MANY things that can leak and we all have some great horror stories to tell but these are the most common items to look at first. Any other leaks you will need to use dye. I think "they" stopped putting dye in new engines back in the 7.3 days. You will need to use one bottle of dye for every 5 quarts of engine oil. I have found that filthy engine oil drastically reduces the dye's effectiveness and sometimes changing the oil is necessary. I doubt you have warranty authorization like some of our city and fleet members here do. I would definitely poke around and get some hands on, then get it to the dealer to warranty the leaks, especially the transfer case before you damage it. Many of these engines are soon to be coming out of warranty so you are going to start having some real fun when you start to see them. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/rofl.gif (sorry, I couldn't help myself)

Cool Avatar! So the rumor mills in Ford chop up facts too? Man, I have heard so many different things lately! I suppose it just shows how a lack of information can turn into a breeding ground for mis-information. I actually think your statement is the most correct given the emissions compliance problems and research dealing with the new fuels. I do think that once diesels get really clean and if they can perform some auto maker should make them broadly available in their line of cars.

There is now a kit to add the upfitter switches to 2005 trucks? Does anybody have the part # and prices if handy?

I am pretty sure that it was a Ford Special Service Tool back in the New Holland engine days or possibly for the 6.9L. I remember digging it out of a closet at work after seeing it at a training class for the FORD/Cummins FD-series diesels. I have used it... and I dropped it /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/frown.gif and still have yet to replace it. I DO have the calibrated float that was inside since it did not break. Realistically, all I need is to find a new glass tube and squeeze ball and I am set.

I don't know if they are turbo diesels. The instructor gave no details on the engines and I think the fact that he mentioned it was kind of a slip. He mentioned it in answering about the cancellation of the new engine. I would guess that they would very likely be turbo diesels for the mere fact that who would want to drive a diesel car without one? From what I I have been reading and hearing all over is that after the low sulfur fuels are here we will be seeing more diesels in everything. Hey - Welcome to our forums mpatron! What the heck were you doing teaching in Argentina?

And it's not going to happen - a Power Stroke or ANY diesel in the F-150/250/Expedition. That is the "official" word. At the very least it's not going to happen any time soon. Apparently, Ford and International were developing a totally new, lightweight diesel for light duty trucks. The rumor was 6 cylinder, high pressure common rail injection, twin turbo and some sort of an aluminum block and head. The valve train was to be electronic with variable timing. The entire project was scrapped due to immense development costs and Ford pulled the plug much to International's dissatisfaction because there was a contract to build units and the engine assembly plant was already under construction in Alabama to build the engine. Navistar sued Ford for damages and won a settlement from Ford. This is actually some old news. I would say that caused some bad blood! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/mad.gif

The LCF is quite a mix of components! I learned a bit in training that came as a small surprise but I wasn't shocked. Here's the deal: The frame is International's and most of the chassis components look like your typical systems and the braking system in both classes is all hydraulic - so no CDL! The cab is all Mazda. If it looks like it is of Japanese design, it is and that was intentional because Ford/International(?) "benchmarked" the truck on the Isuzu cab over trucks. All of the body accessories are straight forward electrical and basic manual systems. Climate control with cables, power windows, door locks and lights that don't use a computer or module to operate. The engine as you are aware is an International engine and is labeled as part of the Power Stroke family and with good reason. The 4.5L PSD is actually a 6.0L PSD with two less cylinders with some differences to the crank (offset journals) and cam (balance shaft added). Additional differences are the EGR valve and EGR controls and a new twin turbo set-up. The transmission is the Ford Torqshift carried over from the Diesel F-Series trucks. Axles by Dana. My impression is that this is a decent truck intended to be low cost, easy and simple to maintain and operate. Almost everything looks easy to get at but I think it will take time to get used to the different diagnostic software and knowing which to use and with which diagnostic connector. On Edit: I also learned that the Ford and International trucks are NOT identical and are NOT built in the same plant. There are differences.

Quote: lol believe it or not Ernie is real. You mean some poor sap drew the shortest straw in conference room somewhere in the halls of Ford Motor Company and ended up with his face on the web site? Concerning the site, I love the new OASIS format with the tabs concept. Now the PTS & Power Stroke Central and a few other pages look old!

In a discussion about the cancellation of a light duty diesel engine for the 1/2 ton trucks I was shocked to learn that Ford HAS not one but TWO 4 cylinder diesels basically ready to go and they will be putting them in cars. Yes, I said cars! You will not see these engines or the 6.4 Power Stroke until low sulfur fuel is in full use - no earlier than 2007.

Quote: cant wait to run into a ford engineer that came up with this idea Get behind ME - I get the first crack at em! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif Oh man, I can't believe you had to do that with chains /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/eek.gif because the hoist adapters make life so much easier and SAFER. I never planned on pulling so many of these engines but I am very grateful that my service department stepped-up and got one for us. They also bought a new OTC engine hoist to replace an old hoist I was using that was hard to move when an engine was loaded on it. We were pulling a 7.3 one day and got it bouncing a little too much - the hoist failed and the engine hit the floor. Just for the record guys, diesel engines don't bounce!

I don't think we realize just how much the new emissions standards are are playing a role in what's developing. On top of that the low and ultra low sulfur fuels that we will eventually be seeing will also cause changes. From what I have been reading, if the low sulfur fuels were in use now, the engine manufacturers would probably be having less trouble. Right now, we are looking at new high pressure common rail injection systems, more catalysts and who knows what?! I don't know if it's better to try and rework an engine or start from scratch - but I am not an engineer.

So what was the winning bid? (If you don't mind me asking) I am just wondering what a used NGS goes for. For that matter I wonder what the price is on any of the NGS models offered by ERS Solutions. Their SBDS Red Line looks like a screaming deal. I tried looking on their web site and the Internet or their site was wacky slow!

I am going to the LCF new model training next week 6/1 & 6/2 Aside from what I am supposed to be learning there, what information do you think I should try to extract from the training engineers? Are there any questions you guys want to suggest that I can ask?

In comes a 2005 F350 4X4 with the snow plow prep package to have the 05B27 program performed. The customer also complained that the trans has a long delay when shifting into gear. I discovered metal grindings in the oil pan. So I removed and disassembled the unit and inspected the parts and son of a gun! One of the rear planetary pinions had walked out and ground down on the output shaft gear just like the 04B24 concern. This trans also had the "updated?" solid output shaft gear in it. The reverse clutch snap-ring hadn't budged. I found it odd that the trans build date was 11-30-04 and still had the pinion shaft concern. After conferring with my service manager we ended up performing an overhaul with parts kits from both programs. Look out fellas, I guess nothing is straight forward anymore! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/eek.gif

Nah! They will still expect us to remove the engine and bolt it to a stand. Removing the cab! Good God! How barbaric!!!

Quote: I have to tell you, working on this motor with no body surrounding it was something of a liberating experience,it was actually pleasurable, but now I also understand where Ford came up with it's labor times. Is someone trying to insinuate that Ford now endorses removing the cab for major engine work? ...and on a lighter note, I just had a day without an engine, transmission or a 6.0 driveability issue. Maybe tomorrow I will dispatch myself a service!

Good luck on your quest for employment. I am sure you will eventually find a place you can call home. By the way, what are dealers paying in West Virginia?

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/rofl.gif They just went back to backorder status today! LOL!!! "Due to un-anticipated demand."

Dale, All of the 6.0's I have had apart did not have exhaust manifold gaskets from the factory. I seem to remember that the 7.3L was the same way though I know a gasket is available. One of my techs just installed one on the 7.3 recently to "fix" a less than flat manifold with broken bolts. For the last two 6.0's we had apart we ordered head sets and I don't remember exhaust manifold gaskets being included in the set.

Anybody heard any news on the future of this engine in the lighter full sized trucks? (i.e. F150 F250 and Expedition) The last I heard the idea was postponed or scrapped but I have been noticing some chatter on the topic on other web sites. I think it will be really interesting to see diesels in the smaller platforms. REAL interesting. I can see the aftermarket performance guys already drooling.

Yes! You were right Dale, Our stock order was filled this week and just in time, I needed two today. This is apparently a new part? It supersedes all 2004 and 2003 EGR valves? These had a plastic bar code sticker and a new type of valve-to-manifold gasket. Let us hope this is a better valve but I don't think that is going to solve the excess carbon build up on these things. I am starting to think that EGR on a diesel is not going to stand the test of time unless "they" can clean up the combustion a lot. Supposedly, removing sulfur from fuel is going to clean up a lot of the soot.

Well, if I can say anything good as far as this topic goes it would be that misery loves company. At least I can say that my reaction to a diesel Econoline should be considered normal. Whew! I was getting worried there for a moment. One good thing I guess is that I am finding new wire chafe locations on a 2005 that is cutting out... and yes, I will add them to the collection.

Quote: I've seen a lot of guys that want everyone to think it's "out-dated". I figure there are a lot of non-CAN equipped vehicles on the road if you don't have a VCM available. An NGS will serve for many more years and it is quite good for 7.3L equipped trucks as well as body and drivetrain diagnosis. Even if you have a VCM, engineering strongly advises against using NGS for the 6.0L because it does not display data accurately. I would love to have an NGS and would take you up on the offer but I am slowly stuffing my piggy bank for a VCM and PDA combo. Sorry to hear things are bad enough to have to sell your tools and your toys.

Yes it's fine to post that stuff here. (I just want us to stay away from the heavy copyright infringement stuff like service manuals TSB's and Recalls, which you can refer to... most of us have access to that information.) Parts of that letter sound like an admission that we (the diesel techs) are getting screwed! I for one have not seen my $50 gratitude certificate as of yet. $50??? Is that supposed to make me feel better especially knowing what's coming at us in the future?

This is worth reading if you haven't seen it! Diesel Technician Recognition Each diesel certified technician in Specialty 51 and / or 52 that properly submits a 6.0L Diagnostic Tool will be entered into a prize drawing. Drawing Details Weekly prize drawings will be conducted from submissions starting Monday morning concluding with submissions through Sunday evening. Winners will be posted to Power Stroke Central by the next Wednesday. In order to recognize as many technicians as possible, technicians will only be eligible to win one weekly drawing per month. Monthly drawings will be conducted from all program-to-date submissions. Program Dates Drawings will begin with submissions from the week beginning May 2nd and conclude with submissions from the week ending July 31st. Prizes 50 weekly drawing winners will each receive 50 Masters Bucks. 5 monthly drawing winners will each receive 1600 Masters Bucks. Masters Bucks give winning technicians maximum flexibility in award choices. Cool new tools like VCMs, PDS, NGS+ to Pocket-PC Conversion Kits, PDAs and even PTS Workstations are available. In fact, a monthly drawing winner will receive enough Masters Bucks to purchase a PTS Workstation! Masters Bucks are also redeemable for a verity of other merchandize from the Masters Program website. Hundreds of different items are available. Personal items like electronics and sporting goods to tools and professional items are available. Diesel specific, as well as other Rotunda tools and equipment can be purchased with Masters Bucks through RTTP certificates. Ford and Power Stroke logo items, including apparel, are also available. Go to Rewards and Recognition from the PTS website and click on the Masters Home Page for more details regarding Masters Bucks redemption. Award Notification Winners of the weekly and monthly drawings will be posted to the Power Stroke Central area of the PTS website by the following Wednesday. Winners with an e-mail address on record with the Masters program will also receive e-mail notification. Here's the link for the PDF version: http://www.fordtechservice.dealerconnection.com/vdirs/diag/Diesel-Drawing-Details.pdf