kellyf Posted April 21, 2008 Share Posted April 21, 2008 I know most people get paid on flat rate.As we all know,watching the gas guys next to you rack up hours on cp doing easier work and flushes is about enough to make you sick.Warranty times for diesel techs suck.As of recently,I worked on both gas and diesel with a bonus for diesel work.Now have a new service manager that is cutting the fat to pad his wallet.He seems as though he wants me to do the diesel and give the gas work to the lower paid,younger techs.This is BS!Tried to discuss this with him,but he is one of those guys that has no listening skills.Says that ever since he became a service manager years ago,all he has heard is techs bitch about everything.The owner of my dealership is a good guy and respects the hard work we do.The service manager is a bottom line guy.Would it be so much to ask to be paid a fair salary!How many get paid in this manner? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted April 21, 2008 Share Posted April 21, 2008 Not an easy position to be in for most techs I assure you. First, you have to want to do the job, and be fairly successful at doing it. Being a "diesel specialist" can be difficult work and prove to be even harder to be productive in general. I am technically on flat rate but because of my background, training and high success rate during my long term of employment I have a nice hourly rate AND a decent guarantee with a team leader bonus. I discussed my employment several years ago and respectfully advised my managers what I will accept to keep me showing up. If you are doing primarily all diesel work and are well trained you are not out of line to settle on a decent but fair weekly guarantee with a productivity bonus. Only some employers will go salaried or hourly. Its just the way this business is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Bruene Posted April 21, 2008 Share Posted April 21, 2008 We have 4 techs in the commercial shop, all of us are on flat-rape. We all make the same hourly rate (which is substantially higher than the car shop rate). We have a guarantee on 6.0 and 6.4 warranty work. We have 2 advisors, who are also our dispatchers, so they do their best to make sure that everyones hours are in check, and not just one tech is doing all the chit while others are doing the gravy. All E/F250 and up come to our shop, gasoline or diesel. The car shop does nothing to anything bigger than an E/F150. Our commercial door rate is also only $80/hr, so you can probably imagine that we have tonnes and tonnes of retail work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaysonfordtech Posted April 22, 2008 Share Posted April 22, 2008 80$canadian that is like 95$ american, lol. Maybe we can sublet/outsource some of our crap work to you canooks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregH Posted April 22, 2008 Share Posted April 22, 2008 Well, there are 5 people in our shop. One is hourly, and the other four are on flat rate - no guarantee. Only one of those flat rate people get paid less than me, but I do all the 6.0's, 6.4's, and most of the 7.3's (if they aren't gravy). I really can't complain, until lately when the work seems to have just fallen off the planet.. In fact, I loaded Grand Theft Auto III onto my work computer so we'd have somthing to fritter the day away with.. Oh, and we're under warranty review, so I'm pretty sure raises are out of the question... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted April 24, 2008 Share Posted April 24, 2008 I have two flat rate techs in our shop... both are diesel certified.... and there is no shortage of diesel work. Both of these techs do extremely well (six digits, boys and girls... if a couple of guys in Armpit, Alberta can do it...) without having to resort to flushes and dubious repair estimates... but you do need a combination of circumstances for this to happen... First and foremost is the traffic through the doors... If the shop sounds like a mausoleum, then it's time to find out WHY - and then "fix it". And this, Dear Reader, is the responsibility of everyone that works in the place. If the store does well... then the staff should do well. But it ain't gonna happen without the main ingredient.... customers. Too often, I talk to techs that seem to have that "we have them for the next <X> years..." attitude... Customers can feel that... and they don't like it. None of us do when it is us standing there with debit card in hand. Ford offers us training... Many accuse it of being inadequate. In reality, it is when we complete a training course in any specialty that our real training starts. A course can only lay the groundwork... the rest is up to us as individuals. We are "experts" because we have a bubble on a plaque or a certificate on the wall. We become experts when we continue to perfect our craft and hone our skills. I've been doing this for nearly 40 years - I don't ever expect to "complete" my training. And that brings us to FIRTFT.... Viewed by too many as company rhetoric. Viewed simplisticly, yes... Take a good look.... Give the customer those good things that we can. This is an industry where we seldom get to give a customer much in the way of "good news". The bill will, most likely be high (in the case of a retail repair)... to the point of adjusting his budget or changing his vacation or Christmas plans.... All we have left is to be good enough, thorough enough and concientious enough to FIRTFT and deliver the unit ON TIME. It's tough to take away some of the pain of an auto repair... but this is part of the job... We can't charge less or leave parts out... So we are left with making it up with things that still matter. All Ford is trying to reinforce is to make the repair experience as least traumatic as possible... And, if we please the customer in a warranty situation... we can continue to charge a fair dollar (in Canada, dealer techs "traditionally" make more than techs involved in the aftermarket) for above average work... and the work should be above average because we have the basic systems training, the documentation, the tools... that most aftermarket outlets can only lust for. That customer will continue to come to us for all of his repair needs... Why? Because we shouldn't use "bait and switch" tactics - promisising a brake job for a ridiculously low price knowing we are going to "fluff" the bill with rotors nad hoses and hardware that may not be required. Not to mention all the other tactics used by some "high volume" shops. When we cultivate this "crop" of retail customers, they will continue to visit us, giving our shop a healthy mix of warranty and CP work... Our bays shall surely runneth over and goodness and well being shall follow us.... Almost without exception, techs take a very narrow view of a very broad problem. And this is to their detriment. It isn't about "me" or you or him... It's about customers. Get the f@cking bays full... get them productive.... FIRTFT... do it on time... do it on the estimate.... And you don't have to give "it" away to do it. Charge what you're worth... but be damned sure you deliver what you charge for. There ain't no "I" in teamwork. Do that... and success should follow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DwayneGorniak Posted April 24, 2008 Share Posted April 24, 2008 Here's one for ya. HOW MANY OF YOU JOURNEYMEN OUT THERE ARE BEING CHARGED TO TRAIN APPRENTICES? Here's the issue: the shop has slowed down drasticly in regular automotive work. I am still busy in diesel. Because the there is no work, I have one first year apprentice is told to come and work with me to learn. However, I am to pay that apprentice out of my flat rate time to help me. This is the first time in my life I have worked at a dealership that charges Journeymen to train apprentices. I am fucking vibrating about it and am currently starting to look for a job again. My dealerprincipal is not here to talk to him about it. But I am trying to run this through my mind before I tell him to find another deasel tech. I would just like to know If I am wrong or right for thinking this way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted April 24, 2008 Share Posted April 24, 2008 I believe that is way out of line. If a dealership wishes to invest in a young technician and train him or her from early on it is the dealerships responsibility, NOT yours. There is more to this. I have my first real apprentice technician right now. He is paid hourly by the service department and I was to be compensated by being given a portion of the hours he produces, not all because we need to show that he is in fact producing. Fair enough because for some time this arrangement actually affected MY PRODUCTIVITY because of the time spent with him... and because at first he was using MY lift. I know that I have not been given anywhere near the hours from him that I should have but it did not affect my bottom line. He is to work along side me and learn as he has been doing. Now I have been assigning him his own work and booking his own hours... when he needs help, he gets it and unless my involvement is more than 10 or 15 minutes for example, I don't bother flagging any of his time. There are times that I may diagnose a truck and ask him to finish the repair. We each take our share of the time. This is the only example of where you could/should give up anything but if the guy is doing the work then you really have no loss to argue over. And if you are reading this Dan, you are doing a great job! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/thumbup.gif Just remember to double check your work and make sure everything is tight. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/fouet3.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted April 24, 2008 Share Posted April 24, 2008 Dwayne... sounds like time to call the labour relations board. Just look in your local phone book for "the right government number" (toll free) and they can put you through... This sounds just plain illegal and it don't matter where your DP is... the board can put a stop to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DwayneGorniak Posted April 24, 2008 Share Posted April 24, 2008 Like I said, I am absolutely Pissed! And Jim, You're right, I'm gonna make this freakin topic at work a fuckin big mess. Man, I'm pissed! It's a good thing I havn't bought a damn house in this town yet and my home pulls behind my truck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Bruene Posted April 24, 2008 Share Posted April 24, 2008 Imagine Jim and Dwayne working at the same dealer... yikes! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/drinkingdude.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DwayneGorniak Posted April 25, 2008 Share Posted April 25, 2008 Well, the D.P was back after lunch and we had a chat. I opened up the conversation with the question: Why am I as a Journeyman getting charged to train your apprentices? He was confrontational and defensive at first like he always is. At first he was going to bat for the Service Manager like he always does. After our heated discussion and him understanding what was going on, he advised me that he had nothing to do with the decision and that he would resolve the matter. I am just not totally convinced that he is sincere. I get the feeling that he is just trying to hang on to his only Journeyman Diesel Tech so that he is not left strapped. He has that typical salesman/businessman way about him. He makes all the decisions in our dealership. Our managers really have no authority for anything unless he says it goes. They are nothing more than puppets. It is an issue that disgusts alot of the employees at our dealership. I will be watching my time tickets very carefully over the next while. Not that I already don't. I know exactly where I am at every day. Imagine Jim and Dwayne working at the same dealer... yikes! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/drinkingdude.gif You know, it could be like Shanghai Noon. I'm just not sure which one of us would be Jackie Chan or Owen Wilson. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/icon_crazy.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif And back to the main topic: .25 cents above base Journeyman rate for every specialty up to a maximum of eight specialties or Master status. Then we have a $1.00/hour bonus for warranty work, then $2.00/hour bonus for when you are working on diesels whether it is warranty or retail. Our door rate is $107.00/hour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted April 25, 2008 Share Posted April 25, 2008 above base Journeyman rate Is there a standard pay scale in Canada? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony302600 Posted April 25, 2008 Share Posted April 25, 2008 Shanghai Moon???? More like Benny Hill ( roll music ). ROFL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted April 25, 2008 Share Posted April 25, 2008 Is there a standard pay scale in Canada? There is a standardized pay scale for apprentices. In Alberta (not sure about other provinces re: percentages) a first year apprentice makes 45% of the base journeyman wage. A second year apprentice makes 55% of that wage, third year 65% and fourth 75%. Each shop gets to set their own journeyman base rate.. obviously, the vagaries of the labour pool can have a large effect on that. Our shops base rate is something like $36 or $38 per flat rate hour.... us being a small, outlying town. Shops in major cities usually pay less - anywhere up to nearly $10 per flat rate hour from what I have seen in the past. Most dealer shops that I know of offer raises for certifications earned and/or performance bonuses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DwayneGorniak Posted April 25, 2008 Share Posted April 25, 2008 The basic unwritten rule of thumb up here is 1/3 or 33% of the door rate. We were at $98.00 door rate last year and raised the door rate to $107.00 this year. Our current base journeyman rate is $30.00/hour. So we are expecting a raise seeing as the door rate went up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LARRY BRUDZYNSKI Posted April 25, 2008 Share Posted April 25, 2008 I think this will cover most of us except maybe Jim, WE ARE PAID WEAKLY VERY WEAKLY, EVERY WEAK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted April 26, 2008 Share Posted April 26, 2008 I think this will cover most of us except maybe Jim, WE ARE PAID WEAKLY VERY WEAKLY, EVERY WEAK Oh. Larry... if you only knew... Am I well recompensed? well, maybe.... I am living proof that you cannot please all of the people all of the time. If some of you guys could only "wear my boots" for a week.... It ain't about you or me or him... It's about "mutual" success... Let's make a loaf of bread..... without yeast... it ain't gonna be a loaf of bread.... Without flour... no surprises here.... Without water.... need I say more? A store is the same kind of deal.... The goal is "a loaf of bread" (aka "happy customer")... without all of the ingredients in the right proportions.... happy dining.... Back to me.... I put out fires... I keep stuff from going so far as to get out of hand.... I tell people "the bad news"... I figure out ways to mitigate the bad news. I stay late, I work through lunch, I work weekends.... This isn't a job for just anyone.... Now that I have finished digressing... I still have two diesel certified techs that do very well, thank you. We collaborate when we have to. As a "working" shop foreman, I keep my hand in on technology... I will not become obsolete unless I allow myself to become obsolete. Posts about wages can, sometimes, become tiresome... We can either make the best of our current situation or we can find a new situation... I'm probably a bit obsessive about my career... But if a tech wants to advance, he is going to have to stand head and shoulders above the crowd.... And that isn't going to happen without applying ones self. Put "U" in your "wurk". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OHNO60 Posted April 26, 2008 Share Posted April 26, 2008 IM LUCKY WE'RE A FULLY HOURLY SHOP. ONLY ISSUE STANDING FROM A MANAGEMENT POINT OF VIEW IS WELL IF A TECHNICIAN DOESN'T FEEL LIKE WORKING,HE/SHE WONT. THAT HURTS THE OVERALL COMPANY.ALSO LIKE MENTIONED OWNERS TODAY WITH THE ECONOMY SEEMING TO BE GOING TO SHIT ARE HESITANT TO OFFER ANY "INCENTIVE PAY" FOR AN HOURLY TECH TO MOVE HIS ASS. THERE SIMPLY HITTING THE PANIC BUTTON. WE NEED THE GODDAM FUEL COST TO GO DOWN SO PEOPLE GET OUT THERE IN THE SUMMER AND BREAK SHIT OR WE'LL DEAD.MY OPINION HAVING A DIESEL BACKROUND, DIESEL TECHNICIANS ARE THE MOST OVER LOOKED PERSONNEL BY PAY RATE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony302600 Posted April 26, 2008 Share Posted April 26, 2008 We get our rate, (whatever each tech is at) plus us diesel guy's get $3 extra per hour, and $1.25 extra for booking over 46 hours Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Bruene Posted April 26, 2008 Share Posted April 26, 2008 I think more places are coming to terms with the way a diesel tech is paid. Just recently, dealers in our area are advertising in the papers at around $35 per hour for diesel techs... which I think is great... diesel techs at my dealer are getting 37.5% of the door rate... as opposed to around 26% for (the highest paid) car technicians. Just ask anyone who has tried to fill a vacant diesel tech position, and I'm sure they'll agree that we just aren't in abundance... especially good ones! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeuiTim Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 Hourly, sweeping the floor or fixing an engine. I have no interest in flat rate work. $21-31hr over 4 classifications, plus 100% insurance, 80 hours vac(up to 160), 3 flex days, 10 sick days, 401k and a pension. Class formally based on time served but more due to ability, attitude. Most good techs are at top pay within their 4 year, we will see(just had my 3 year ann. You guys should work on big diesels, they are all the same, flat rate is no place for this work. Until your grocery store shevles start going empty, likely lots of freight moving by truck no matter how high fuel gets. I want to understand this, if you dont have a base pay rate, no trucks to work on in flat rate shop, no billable hours, no pay? I would sell my tools and go mow lawns the first time that happened! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 Most flat-rate shops will offer an hourly guarantee, say 30-35 hours average from what I see locally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rickster42 Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 dwayne,the same type thing happened to me. Shop was slow but diesel was always busy for me.People start to get hungry,and think "hey that looks easy!" and have a go at some diesel. It almost always goes something like this: step #1 - pull code step #2 - install part in code description on ids(no need to read entire ids screen, just skim to first part that says what part "may" be involved.) Step #3 - not fixed. try another part from that system. step #4 - still not fixed. uh-oh... this is not good, starting to loose time... step #5 - load parts cannon step #6 - once parts cannon loaded with as many parts as it can hold, aim squarely at problem truck and .....FIRE... step #7 - hope like hell one part sticks and fixes truck... step #8 - ask shop foreman if he can discreetly discuss problem with me so as not to have to look like tech is asking for help from me.(cause i`ll ask the tough questions) step #9 - truck gets parked in my bay ( sometimes ,not always see step #7) and gets fixed. step #10 - I`m an asshole (never too my face though..hehe) and while the cynic in me is provided with some entertainment in these situations, the reality is that now the diesel work has slowed also and now I am competing for DIESEL work! I never though diesel would slow down and I hope it doesn`t at your shop either dwayne.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mchan68 Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 step #5 - load parts cannon step #6 - once parts cannon loaded with as many parts as it can hold, aim squarely at problem truck and .....FIRE... step #7 - hope like hell one part sticks and fixes truck... One of my ex-coworkers described this type of mentality being used at another dealer close to where I live, "PARTS 'TILL IT STARTS" /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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