fjubain Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 We've been seing more and more 6.0l come in with green coolant in system. Hotline told me once that green coolant should never be put in a 6.0l, I don,t remember everything he told me but boiling point affected?? , life duration, lubricity, components durabilty. I need more advice and knowledge to convince customer to flush there system and return to gold coolant. Thank you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmy57 Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 Diesels have rapid, high cylinder pressure pulses when combustion occurs. These pulses cause a pressure wave in coolant jacket around cylinder. The pressure wave can make untreated coolant develop a momentary gas bubble on outer surface of cylinder and the re-fill of the that gas bubble by liquid erodes the metal and if left unchecked will make a pinhole allowing coolant into cylinder. All diesel engines suffer from this with parent bore (cylinder bored in block casting instead of a cylinder that is serviced separate from block as on large commercial diesel engines) engines having a lowered tendency to do this. Correct coolant with the chemicals that inhibit the gas bubble from forming stop this. The Gold coolant has the correct chemicals and pH. Green does not. Mixed green and gold kills the effectiveness of the gold coolant. Needs to be flushed and refilled with Gold. The previous way of handling coolant treatment was the use of green coolant with an additive added. The additive had to be preiodically replenished. The coolant needed to be tested with a test strip periodically. Too much fuss and it rarely was done. Gold changed at 5 year interval is WAY easier and safer. Commercial diesel engines that have the insert cylinders have long had coolant conditioner filters that have a dissolving solid chemial agent that keeps the chemical balance correct in coolant. In the last few years these have transitioned over to the gold or another diesel specific long-life coolant to avoid all the cooling system fuss and worry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Amacker Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 In addition to that correct information, aluminum alloys are compatible with specific coolants. In the import car world this is especially true, and using the wrong coolant in a Euro car will result in amazingly fast deterioration of impellers, gaskets, and even perforation of castings. Check out this hole in a 6.0 cover: Note the color of coolant...... http://www.forddoctorsdts.com/forums/ubb...h=true#Post6019 Good Luck! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjubain Posted December 5, 2008 Author Share Posted December 5, 2008 Thanks guys for these very helpfull info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dieseldoc Posted December 13, 2008 Share Posted December 13, 2008 Looking for an opinion on this. Would it be ok to run a conventional(green)coolant in a 6.0 as long as you test the coolant for SCA on a regular(each oil change)basis? I had a lot of casting sand in my personal pick-up. I flushed the cooling system twice and could not get rid of it. I installed a coolant filter and use conventional(CAT DEAC)coolant. I check my SCA level and PH along with taking a coolant sample at each oil change. I hadnt thought about the aluminum front cover and water pump in the 6.O . No trouble in 30,000 miles but really dont want to ruin a $10,000 engine. I have never been impressed with Long life coolants. In my experience the engines that I have seen the most cavitation erosion in are ones that run extended life coolant. Usually because the uneducated operators add anything that is lying around to the coolant and ruin it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Amacker Posted December 13, 2008 Share Posted December 13, 2008 I would recommend strongly to stay with a FMC approved (gold GO5) coolant. There are aftermarket coolants that meet OE specs that are not overly expensive if money is your biggest concern. In my opinion, I feel that the majority of customers' problems result from the refusal to follow proper the maintenance procedures spelled out in the owner's manual. (Duh, like this is news?) If the cooling system is serviced regularly, no leaks occur, and the pressure cap works properly, 99% of cooling system issues would disappear. Even the bad rap Dexcool has is mostly due to aeration and cap issues. Merry Christmas! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted December 13, 2008 Share Posted December 13, 2008 I'm still looking for emperical evidence... rockbroncos pic shows a cover that appears to have suffered in more ways that one.... Some of the marks suggest a failed impeller - certainly corrosion or cavitation played a role... but gold coolant with dye in it can look green.... Gold coolant life expectancy appears to be a moving target... depending on what advice you read, life span may or may not be 160,000 kilometers (I will chalk some of the problems up to the US' reluctance to adopt the metric system). After the magic 160K kms.... we are told to cosnider the lifespan of the replacement gold coolant to be the same as good old green... which, BTW, is significantly cheaper than teh gold.... diesel additive not-with-standing. Oh... we just have to love - AKKKKK!!, my old man memory can't even remember the good word for it, now .... 'unproven observation' help an old man out... Anyway.... we have a lot of truck riggers that just can't seem to read.... Trucks with hundreds of thousands of clicks on them... all with a mixture of gold and green coolant... scroll compressors, pickers, service bodies of one sort or another (oil patch band aids, Xray trucks, you name it). These trucks are modified and some cretin puts antifreeze in the system... "DUH... da package sed auntyfriz... I pud id in..." Now... if we look at the WSM, we see we are supposed to be using distilled water.... I don't know about you.... but I can't see distilled water in the chemical catalogue, anywhere... and Ford doesn't like to pay for "non-Ford" items unless they are forced into it (lap up the simple green TSB while it lasts). And the only similarity between your tap water and mine is that both "should" contain at least some H2O. After that... who-eeee. We need something definitive on coolants.... NASCAR uses straight water because glycol is slippery.... antifreeze changes the rate of latent heat absorption... antifreeze changes the surface tension of the carrier (water).. Years ago, Smokey Yunick wrote several paragraphs on cooling systems and what he learned during the development of Chevys 396/427 engines during the NASCAR horsepower wars (it was about this time the hemi was banned and Dodge said "fuck you France"). And what the Smoke wrote about cooling systems was an eye opener.... This business is complex.... and some of the systems that should be very simple, become the most complex.... If we can't answer a question with another question... perhaps we are remiss.... We have coolants... red - gold - green.... Somebaody tell me WHY... We couldn't use MerconV in place of Mercon... no... WAIT.. yeah... use MercV for Mercon (this week it is OK)... but now we give you Merc SP and MercV and MercLV and CVT fluid and - 'you will be assimilated' - now, every time we want to put a key in an ignition, we get the feeling we need to consult the WSM to see if there are special requirements. The crux of the matter is.... if you are to tell me I cannot use <this> <there>... have the decency to tell me why..... without using the word *MAY*. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Amacker Posted December 13, 2008 Share Posted December 13, 2008 but gold coolant with dye in it can look green.... Come on, Jim, Dustin said it was green coolant. What do you really think the odds are that it was gold coolant with a green leak dye additive? We have coolants... red - gold - green.... Somebody tell me WHY... Re-read the second and third posts, that should be enough. The crux of the matter is.... if you are to tell me I cannot use <this> <there>... have the decency to tell me why..... Engineers don't have to tell us why, and I understand that. I know enough to read between the lines and believe them when they tell me we need to use X fluid in a component. I've seen enough reasons on my own to believe the book. Merry Christmas! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LARRY BRUDZYNSKI Posted December 14, 2008 Share Posted December 14, 2008 Quote: Oh... we just have to love - AKKKKK!!, my old man memory can't even remember the good word for it, now .... 'unproven observation' help an old man out... Jim I believe this would be a good word for you unsubstantiatedNow my take on Antifreeze or coolant which ever is politically correct this week. As long as the substance we are using in the "cooling systems" are chemically compatible and are either precharged or added with DCA or SCA, what's the difference. The additive package is what the manufactures are primarily concerned with, not one of them wants to pay for repairs if the base coolant is incompatible with the inside of there engines, every engine manufacturer has there own requirements for coolant, but there are many good coolants out there for substantially less. As for having to check the levels of the additive at certain required mileages, everyone should have been informed about this. If the engines come in for problems due to cavitation, this tells me that either the company or individual doing the pm's are not checking these levels of the additive package. Right now I'm dealing with a fleet customer that has been doing alot of in chassis overhauls on Series 60 Detroits, we asked why he is doing so many and inquired about the DCA levels and pm intervals, he has not been checking or adding any DCA during pm's for at least the last 2 years. Shame on him. PM's are the point that these things should be checked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Amacker Posted December 14, 2008 Share Posted December 14, 2008 Quote: As long as the substance we are using in the "cooling systems" are chemically compatible and are either precharged or added with DCA or SCA, what's the difference. And how are going to determine that the coolant you substitute is chemically compatible with the alloys in the engine at hand? And, if you are the repair shop owner that approves this substitution, are you willing to take the responsibility if the engine has a head gasket/perforation/corrosion issue that kills it? (sidebar- this is so fucking common in the Euro car market it isn't funny) Also, if Shop A puts in a substitute coolant and the vehicle blows a gasket a year later, Shop B could rat on Shop A telling the cust that the improper coolant contributed to the gasket failure. The cust could sue Shop A and they don't have a leg to stand on in court, Shop A is going to buy this guy an engine. This is one of my big pet peeves. Find a tech that specializes in high end import cars and ask him about using substitute coolants. Pack a lunch. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif The additive package is what the manufacturers are primarily concerned with, not one of them wants to pay for repairs if the base coolant is incompatible with the inside of their engines, every engine manufacturer has their own requirements for coolant, but there are many good coolants out there for substantially less. Substantially less? As in substituting a cheaper coolant to save money? Once again, how do you know which one, by reading the bottle in the parts store? All coolant bottles make the same claim- that they are compatible with every car, truck, lawnmower and spaceship on earth. It is simply not true. The reason they can make these claims is that nobody has challenged them in court due to the high cost of doing so, and that there is fine print on the bottle that would exonerate them from legal judgements. To my knowledge, most mfer's give a list of aftermarket coolants that are compatible with the OE coolant specified for a given vehicle. As for having to check the levels of the additive at certain required mileages, everyone should have been informed about this. Testing and correcting PH level only applies to older green Ethylene Glycol coolants. All modern (ELC/GO5/HOAT) coolants do not need the PH monitored in them, but they may have additives available for extending their service life. If the engines come in for problems due to cavitation, this tells me that either the company or individual doing the pm's are not checking these levels of the additive package. This applies only to older EG systems. Right now I'm dealing with a fleet customer that has been doing alot of in chassis overhauls on Series 60 Detroits, we asked why he is doing so many and inquired about the DCA levels and pm intervals, he has not been checking or adding any DCA during pm's for at least the last 2 years. Shame on him. PM's are the point that these things should be checked. I completely agree that customers should be checking and correcting the PH level on EG coolants, I've been teaching it for years. (Sidebar- there are two types of EG- regular and "Fully Formulated". If you buy the cheapest EG, it needs DCA/SCA right out of the bottle. Fully Formulated has the proper additives in it when new.) All truck repair shops/dealers/diesel specialists do a ton of in-frames caused by PH neglect, it's one of their biggest money makers. You're talking old stuff here, I'm guessing DDA has not used EG coolant for 8 years or more. Merry Christmas! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.