MIL caused by a-market air fiters? SSM? Can't find it. 6.4L

[Aaron]

Wasn't there an SSM or TSB for this on the 6.4 2008 trucks? Something about the aftermarket air filter causing a check engine lamp?

 

My memory is fuzzy, so I may be wrong, but I can't find it in the archives.

 

Thanks guys!

[LARRY BRUDZYNSKI]

I couldn't find it either, but thought this might be a good time for a refresher on some of the codes and conditions....

 

CLICKIE HERE!

[Aaron]

P244A was the code, now that I have had my memory slightly refreshed by the monkeyhouse.

[DwayneGorniak]

Aaron, I don't there ever was a TSB or SSM for this. I think what you are thinking of, may be what tech hotline has told us many times and what a few of us have talked about on this site. And that is the fact that after market high flow air filters will allow to much air flow through the engine and will crack DPF's which will usually turn on the MIL. When i was at Fourlane, I replaced at least half a dozen if not closer to a dozen cracked DPF's on trucks that were equipped with high flow air filters or engine dusters if you want to call them that.

[Jim Warman]

I'd caution against associating a DPF failure with an aftermarket air filter....

 

"Too much air flow".... an engine is only going to pass as much air as an engine is going to pass... Be it a stock air filter, one of the popular open weave mistakes or a pair of GrampyJims old underwear pants.... the only air going through the motor is going to be what the motor can inhale....

 

Let us not forget that, often, there will appear a broadcast message that never, ever makes it to SSM or TSB... Let us not forget that our test procedures (be it a pin point test or a symptom chart) are written for a truck "as built".

 

Let us endeavour to use reason when deciding on a course of action.

[Keith Browning]

Quote:

"Too much air flow".... an engine is only going to pass as much air as an engine is going to pass... Be it a stock air filter, one of the popular open weave mistakes or a pair of GrampyJims old underwear pants.... the only air going through the motor is going to be what the motor can inhale....

To add to Jim's reply the 6.4L uses the Throttle Plate during regen thus controlling the air going into the engine. The problem we previously faced with aftermarket intakes was that some of the filters actually caused turbulence that affected the MAF sensor which was giving us great trouble when the inferred EBP calibration was installed on modified trucks. Perhaps that is what you were thinking of?

Quote:

GrampyJims old underwear

[Steve Mutter]

do you mean this one

20123 2008 F-SUPER DUTY - 6.4L - P0401/P0402/P2002/P244A/P2453/P2455 AND/OR DPF DAMAGE CAUSED BY AFTERMARKET EQUIPMENT

SOME 2008 6.4L DIESEL VEHICLES MAY SET DTC P0401,P0402,P2002,P244A, P2453, P2455 OR HAVE A DAMAGED DPF/DOC (BLACK SOOT IN TAIL PIPE, BLACK OR WHITE SMOKE) RESULTING FROM AFTERMARKET MODIFICATIONS. BEFORE PROCEEDING WITH NORMAL DIAGNOSTICS, INSPECT THE VEHICLE FOR NON-APPROVED AFTERMARKET AIR INDUCTION SYSTEMS, AND OR AFTER DOC/DPF EXHAUST SYSTEMS OR ELIMINATION OF THE DOC/DPF AND OR PERFORMANCE ENHANCING PROGRAMS. THE USE OF NON APPROVED AFTERMARKET AIR INDUCTION SYSTEMS CAN ALSO CONTAMINATE THE MAF SENSOR, AND CAUSE INACCURATE EGR OPERATION AND FALSE DIAGNOSTICS CODES. REPLACEMENT OF FACTORY COMPONENTS WILL NOT RESOLVE THESE CONCERNS, AND SHOULD NOT BE ATTEMPTED OR COVERED UNDER WARRANTY. PLEASE REFER TO THE WARRANTY AND POLICY MANUAL, SECTION 3, FOR WARRANTY IMPLICATIONS OF REPAIRS RELATED TO VEHICLE MODIFICATIONS.

EFFECTIVE DATE: 02/05/2008

[Aaron]

That's the one!

[ChristopherH]

For what its worth, we have a customer with an 08 F550 6.4 who installed a DPF back exhaust system and an "engine duster" air cleaner. He has had repeated check engine light concerns with DPF, EGT, and MAF codes despite the fact that all of these sensors check out fine. Sometimes depending on his use of the truck he will go for a couple of months with no MIL and then at times it will come on every few days. Has also had one DPF replaced under warranty so far. I can't say that I have conclusive proof that these changes are the root cause here (our FSE thinks so), but I can say that these 6.4s are very finnicky and even very small changes seem to affect them. Hotline told me that any change on these engines from where the air comes in to where the exhaust exits will cause a MIL eventually.

[BrunoWilimek]

We have a meathead customer who put an ARE(I think it was) air filter and aftermarket dual exhaust(from the particulate filter back)on his 08 6.4 even though I told him not to before he bought it. The air intake caused the CEL to come on with a code P2002(if my memory is correct). The customer argued with me that the air cleaner was not the cause, but has returned it to stock after talking to the company and learning that it was a known concern. Later, he came back for another code that I traced to the exhaust, but again he didn't believe me, but he has not been back for that concern since. The company faxed him their specifications, showing areas after the DOC as being OK to modify. The dual talpipes had the vent holes in them , but the code was for too low backpressure, which said look for exhaust modifications first. The customer went ahead with the modifications because our dealer principal told him he could. I guess that meant more to him than a tech's opinion. What the heck do I know anyhow?

[LARRY BRUDZYNSKI]

Quote:

The customer went ahead with the modifications because our dealer principal told him he could.

If the customer was smart he would have gotten this in writing from your D/P. If the D/P stands by his word you can bet your store just married this guy. If the mods cause any problems or warranty kick backs your D/P is responsible being the fact he "Told" the customer it was okay to do them.

[BrunoWilimek]

Luckily he isn't too smart. Evidence? He bought a lift "kit" for the front end shortly after buying the truck in preparation for installing a snowplow. I installed the kit as per the included instructions. The truck looked really dorky, sitting higher in front than in back, so he put a lift kit in the rear himself. Shortly after that he came in angry that someone at the dealership had abused his truck before he took delivery. Seems the front axle was sticking out further on the left front than the right front. After doing some measuring and looking at the track bar, I called the lift kit manufacturer's tech hotline. Turns out the "kit" he purchased was not complete. He should have bought the "complete" kit that included a revised track bar bracket and rear lift kit, for less than what he ended up paying to get the pieces separately. He also paid for a second wheel alignment after the new track bar bracket was installed. Some people never learn. This is the same customer who put stacks on his last truck, an 03 F250 6.0, through a hole cut in the box, and added a programmer with a display mounted on the dash that spit out DTC's. Every time the display spit out another DTC, he would get on his cellphone and call me at the dealership to ask what it meant. I tried to tell him to ignore them unless the CEL came on or he had a driveability concern, even went so far as to black the screen out with electrical tape. I finally had to get the receptionist to screen my calls and stopped answering if it was him. I don't like to bite the hand that feeds me, but sometimes I wish I could fire a customer.

[cbriggs]

Ha Ha, Fire a customer. I have always liked that one.

[Jim Warman]

Not so far fetched.... Back when I was self-employed, I did resort to just that...

 

"I am sorry <sir/ma'am>, it is apparent that I cannot please you. I suggest that you prevail upon one of the other service outlets in our area for your future repair needs".

 

Life is too short to live in fear when "that truck" pulls on to the lot....

 

Cultivate the "good stuff".... pull the weeds and discard them. I've been trying to tell them wieners on FRT this same stuff for a long time.... Most everyone is busy letting their jobs run them rather than learning how they can run their jobs...

[Jim Warman]

Steve.... a lot of this stuff is simply engineering rhetoric... Don't get me wrong.... aftermarket parts can and will cause concerns.... Aftermarket parts can and will complicate our jobs.... But everyone out there is so busy trying to play CYA that they will dump every concern on the shoulders of the tech...

 

You are the middleman..... you are handy.... you will be the guy that gets shat on.... Approach each situation with an open mind. Get your customer to work with you and work with your customer....

 

God grant me the will to change those things I can.... the strength to survive those things I can't... and the sense to see the difference.

[Steve Mutter]

somtimes you just need paper work to help your point if you have a problem truck and if the customer does not what to work with you,I do try and keep an open mind with everything, and do what I can to do to try and fix stuff,I see your point