GregH Posted October 29, 2006 Share Posted October 29, 2006 I have noticed recently that the "other" site has been completely overwhelmed by, well, idiots. They pose a question, it's answered by competent technicians, and it is ridiculed by others. Generally is results in a degeneration of the topic, abandoned by anyone with technical experience, and ends up locked or buried so far back that no one reads it - preferring to muck up the latest thread on the front page. I wonder sometimes why I still bother to go over there and give of my experience. I still do, however; guess it's some masochistic tendancy that's been latent all these years... Sometimes I just want to post "Mediocraties, wannabes, shadetrees, and everyone who thinks they don't fit these categories: Your answer posting priveleges have been revoked. You may continue to post questions, but be aware that heavy editing may take place." I know - very unfair. Freedom of speech and all... Guess I'm still a little peeved about the whole air chisel to the fan clutch ordeal. Anyway, just venting about the latest round of idiots... The whole TSB thing and all... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted October 29, 2006 Share Posted October 29, 2006 Greg, I often wonder that myself and have strayed away from those sites at times to cool-off... only to return. We all have our reasons for participating. My skin is much thicker than it ever has been. I'm not quite up to Jim Warman's league but at least I have something to aspire to. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif Concerning that TSB thread I am for once happy to have pissed "them" off because I sparked a good debate. Unfortunately some of "them" just can't get past themselves and discuss a topic without dragging in the same old god-damned tired-ass selfish bitch about the plagued 6.0L piece of crap Ford they are stuck with. No matter how many times we tell them we "get it" they keep regurgitating the same crap and pay little attention to what is being told to them. Fortunately there are a few of "them" that are capable of an intelligent discussion and I thoroughly enjoy communicating with them. Did you understand that my only argument was about the illegal manner in which the TSB's in the first link were being distributed? ...and look where it went. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/rofl.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted October 29, 2006 Share Posted October 29, 2006 We have to sometimes wonder if it is my skin that is thick.... or my head... I like helping people... it's just my nature.... At the same time, I don't mind making sport of some of them, either.... I love the "tech of the quarter" guy... to think he actually get's paid to "fix" trucks. I haven't been back since last night so I'm unsure if he's caught on to what the FICM strategy is all about yet, or not.. I've probably been a little hard on some of them lately, though... My loving bride was flown to Edmonton a little over a week ago for gall bladder surgery so she hasn't been around to keep me "in check"... Drove down today and brought her home (no beds available in the local hospital so a transfer was out of the question). She is doing very well and is happy she is no longer enduring the crippling pain she was experiencing... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted October 29, 2006 Share Posted October 29, 2006 I like helping people... it's just my nature.... At the same time, I don't mind making sport of some of them, either.... That's why I like you Jim. I have always been accused of being wrapped to tightly or trying to change the World. Now, I try to help out where I can and try to make just a few parts of the World a little better and not worry about the rest of it. Making sport of rest just might be what the doctor ordered! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/rofl.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastendpowerstroke Posted October 31, 2006 Share Posted October 31, 2006 Guess I'm still a little peeved about the whole air chisel to the fan clutch ordeal. Ok maby I'm a little slow I guess the "other" site is the offical ford one? I find myself not reading it much because it makes my head hurt... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktmlew Posted October 31, 2006 Share Posted October 31, 2006 I have noticed recently that the "other" site has been completely overwhelmed by, well, idiots. Guess I'm still a little peeved about the whole air chisel to the fan clutch ordeal. So "you" DON"T use an air chisel? /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/hammer2.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastendpowerstroke Posted November 2, 2006 Share Posted November 2, 2006 So "you" DON"T use an air chisel? /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/hammer2.gifUUUMMMM NO!My name is David not Primitive Pete /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/hammer2.gif Now I will admit to using some tool for tasks they were not intended for but I usually try to have the right tools Unfortunately the flat rate pay system breeds contempt for the system,poor workmanship and most "techs" just dont give a crap about it as long as they make 70 hrs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktmlew Posted November 2, 2006 Share Posted November 2, 2006 Originally Posted By: ktmlew So "you" DON"T use an air chisel? /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/hammer2.gif UUUMMMM NO!My name is David not Primitive Pete /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/hammer2.gif Now I will admit to using some tool for tasks they were not intended for but I usually try to have the right tools Unfortunately the flat rate pay system breeds contempt for the system,poor workmanship and most "techs" just dont give a crap about it as long as they make 70 hrs. I loved those Primitive Pete films!!! Worked with a couple of them over the years. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/poke.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted November 2, 2006 Share Posted November 2, 2006 Greg, where was this "air chisel" thread? I guess I missed it. Sounds like it was a good one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastendpowerstroke Posted November 3, 2006 Share Posted November 3, 2006 Ya know there is tools for fan clutches that is driven by an air chisel also o2 sensors /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/rockon.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted November 4, 2006 Share Posted November 4, 2006 I can't recall if it was TDS or FRT... there was mention of using an air hammer and a long chisel to break the fan clutch hub free from the water pump.... FWIW, I don't remember exactly who said what - only that heated discussion followed. Now... I have resorted to this sort of brutality in the past and, quite probably will find the need to repeat the process in the future. Done properly. the damage will only ever be cosmetic. Most of the trucks I work on are "work" trucks.... owned by consultants, hotshot drivers, oilfield band aid units, well operators.... All these guys that can lose either a thousand bucks in a day or a lucrative contract in a week.... funny how they don't mind a few marks in the fan hub in the name of less downtime... Back to the story... there were many that displayed disdain, dismay and even hostility to the idea of accomplishing a difficult task in anything other than a saintly manner.... FWIW, most of those that find using an air chisel to break a difficult fan clutch free reprehensible also felt that an impact wrench (in most cases, sans torque sticks, which I don't like, anyway) was good enough for wheel nuts - no torque wrench needed. FWIW (again) the tools that eastendpowerstroke shows are good tools... One of the guys in our shop bought a set... I will too, one day, after I'm done with the tools I need more... I can't recall where Greg stood in the thread, but I recall it was just another one of "those" threads.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregH Posted November 6, 2006 Author Share Posted November 6, 2006 I think the thread started with how to remove the fan shroud. Silly me, I posted how I accomplish the task. In the post, I referenced using an air chisel to remove stubborn fan clutches. This touched off a flurry of negative posts, from technicians, service managers, shop foremen, and consumers. Many berated me for not using the proper tools; several stated that if this procedure were performed on their truck, they would demand a new clutch and water pump. One in particular stated that he would "kill" the technician who soiled his truck in that manner. Even after explaining that I was talking about a precise, and merely adequate, application of force, the posts continued. In the end, I found it necessary to take a hiatus from TDS until the storm passed. I remember years ago I replaced a halfshaft on my sister's taurus. She was appalled that I used a hammer to shock the outer tie rod end into releasing. After that, I realized that sometimes it's not wise to let the owner see the tools and techniques used to repair their vehicle. Evidently, I'd forgotten that I had learned that lesson. I've been called alot of things over the years - some positive, most negative. "Air chisel tech" has been the most hurtful, however. It is obvious from the flow of postings that the great majority of those people have never had the pleasure of removing a corroded, overtightened fan clutch - or anything else that was remotely difficult to remove/access/etc. I agree that there are a lot of problems with the flat rate system. Unfortunately, in my area all the shops have the same system. I'm bound by my need to feed my family week to week, knowing that I'm at the mercy and whim of the general public. There have been more than a few panic situations at the end of a pay cycle when my calculated pay will not meet the bills that are due. Speed, efficiency, and accuracy are paramount to my goal of supporting my family. If a fan clutch gets scarred in a cosmetic way, so be it - as long as functionality or longevity are not impaired. I would love to be in another profession - or at the least on another pay system - but I am also bound by the choices I made in the past that have lead me to this position in life. If I could go back, I would corect all the poor choices I've made. I would not be an automotive technician; I would not have the record I currently am shackled with; I would not live in my current location. I've got no one to blame but myself. My father worked at Lockheed Martin designing the external tank for the Space Shuttle. My mother worked on the Gemini and Apollo missions. My sister also works for NASA tasking imaging satellites. My brother flies all over the country installing and maintaining computer networks in hospitals. I was well on my way to aquiring a degree in industrial technology and was in pursuit of a career at NASA to work on the budding Mars exploration projects. I tossed it all away over one event almost two decades ago. Now I'm a grease monkey. Simply because the only place that would hire me when I really, really needed a job - any job - was Wal-Mart. And they were going to place me in the sporting goods department. Evidently they didn't read my application too well, becuase in this state I cannot be within 50 feet of a firearm. So they placed me in the automotive department changing oil. And so began my career in the automotive service world. It took some time before I could move to the dealership level. Even so, I had to lie on my application to get the job. One month later the bonding company (who was much more thorough with their background checks) advised my dealer of my past. A very tense meeting with upper management ensued, and upon reviewing my performance during my month of employment, they graciously allowed me to keep my job. That was several dealers ago, and my current dealer had the clause "...in the last seven years" on their application. Unfortuantely there is no statute of limitations on that sort of thing, so my goal of working at NASA is no longer possible. So, I remain, the black sheep of the family. Working in the only job that will have me. I make good money, and I am good at my job. I recieve the appropriate kudos from management, I have a following of customers who regularly request me, and my coworkers and I have a mutual admiration. I have a good work environment. But my dreams of so long ago will stay unrequited. I know what you are thinking. "so what, jackass, I've got things I'd rather be doing right now too. You aren't the only one who isn't happy with your lot in life." or "look, asshole, I like this line of work. It's challenging and entertaining, and I make good money. If you don't like it, shut the hell up and leave." Call me a whiner. Call me a complainer. Tell me to stop feeling sorry for myself. I've told myself these things over and over again. There is a ball of clay deep inside me. It is black, rancid, and will stain your fingers if you touch it. Layer upon layer has been laid on it, squeezing it down and keeping it contained. It's in a dark place, keeping my secrets safe. It's a part of me; I'd be lost without it. But I hate it more than anything I've ever disliked before. My father died in 2004. My mother died in 2006. In their eyes, I was a failure. I know that the only way to redeem myself in their's and my eyes is to provide the best life possible for my family. To do this, I must be the best technician I can. Morals are easy to sacrifice in the flat rate system; mine have been sacrificed enough, however. I see no problem with using what some would consider an extreme measure to remove a stubborn part - provided that no component's integrity is damaged. It is the pursuit of a better life for my family that drives me to take the air chisel (or hammer, or impact tool) out of my box.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted November 8, 2006 Share Posted November 8, 2006 While I was in trade school I was told by a guy in the fuel room that most diesel mechanics (that's what we were called 20 years ago) are much different than the regular all around mechanic. We tend to to be more passionate about our work, more detail oriented and more mechanically curious - most people are content with just knowing what went wrong. We might be inclined to spend a few hours figuring out why. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crazy.gif The point is, when you have a group of guys who have developed their own methods that have contributed to their own individual madness get together, a debate is likely to occur over something as simple as removing a fan. I must admit to having removed a fan or two with a long chisel and a hand sledge. I do prefer to use the fan clutch wrenches that are in my tool box though. I suppose that topics like these can test our wills when when it comes to our convictions and what we think is the right or proper way. There are situations when a man has to do what he has to do to get the job done. Speaking of NASA, I have an uncle that worked in the space program in the seventies. Remember the NASA Space Pens? I read a story that told that NASA spent over a million dollars developing a pen that would write in zero gravity. The Russians faced with the same problem used pencils. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/thumbup.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastendpowerstroke Posted November 8, 2006 Share Posted November 8, 2006 Do not take my primitive Pete comment the wrong way it was not intended as an insult. I harbor a HUGE hatred for the flat rate system in place at most dealers as it forces good techs to do poor quality work by holding a paycheck to there heads like a gun, thus bringing the use of an air chisel up from a last resort on a stubborn fan to the first thing they reach for just to save 5 min my only problem with it's use as a last resort is that Most flat rate techs have absolute no idea of what "a precise, and merely adequate, application of force" is. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/hammer2.gif I won't tell you some of the things I've done to an E-super duty cutaway/school bus to access stuff /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/blush.gif Not one person in this Field is without sin in the day to day life of a tech if they claim to be ..... Now I don't spend time around TDS so before writing this I spent a while reading some posts over there. I don't think I'll make it a habit to spend a lot of time there, I don't think my box is big enough to hold some of those tools around that place So don't let them bother you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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