GregH Posted March 26, 2007 Share Posted March 26, 2007 So I've got my first 6.4L in for service with an apparent high pressure fuel problem, and I get this phone call from someone at Navistar. He and I talk a bit about the problem with my customer's truck, and he gives me quite a bit of insight and some new testing procedures. We then go on to talk about the cab removal procedure. First, he broaches the subject cautiously - saying "you know, to access some of this stuff on the engine, the cab will be in the way. Ford has made it relatively easy to just remove the whole cab." I tell him that it's cool - I've been jerking bodies on everything from 150/expedition/navigtor up to 550's for years. He then starts to tell me that the cab bolts come off from the bottom - cool, but no new information there. New body style f-150's are already like that. He then tells me that the sealer on the bolt threads is so strong, that they have had many of the welded-in nuts break loose in the body before the bolt breaks free from the nut. What?? You mean to say that if I put an impact onto a body bolt and hit the trigger, then there is a strong possibility that the nut will spin in the body?? Yep, that's the case... He said that it has happened to him during time studies, etc. and that the word has been passed along to the people who make these decisions, but changes along the assembly line are slow to come. You see, the threadlock on the bolts is heat activated. During assembly, they are spun in with power tools at high speed, and the friction from the bolt/nut interface heats the sealer and activates it. Then the bolt stops, and everything is allowed to cool - which sets the sealer and locks the threads. But the thread locker is apparently too strong, or the nuts are fastened to the body too weakly. So, Ford finally catches on that we pull bodies. They do their part to make it faster, ie harder to beat warranty time. And they !@#!?$! it all up in the process. Good job, jerks... The guy from navistar recommended using penetrating spray on it and hand tools only... I seriously doubt spray will help the situation, but you know I've got to try... As for using hand tools, good thing I've done a lot of the 6.0L cylinder head torque sequences. It's a great upper body workout - cut my time at the gym in half! Anyway, has anyone pulled a body on one of these yet? If so, how did it go? Is the Navistar guy exaggerating? Yours in wonderland... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted March 26, 2007 Share Posted March 26, 2007 Quote: 7005 - 2008 F-SUPER DUTY - CAGE NUT SPINNING - CAB OFF SERVICE PROCEDURES SOME 2008 F-SUPER DUTY VEHICLES WITH 6.4L ENGINE MAY EXHIBIT A CAGE NUT WHICH SPINS, WHICH MAKES IT DIFFICULT TO REMOVE THE CAB FOR SERVICING. USING AN AIR TOOL MAY WORSEN THIS CONDITION. THE CAGE NUTS ARE LOCATED IN THE FOLLOWING PLACES: FRONT CAGE NUT - REMOVE LEFT AND/OR RIGHT HAND HEADLAMP ASSEMBLY; SECOND CAGE NUT - REMOVE INNER FENDER WELL AND BODY PLUG; THIRD AND FOURTH CAGE NUTS ACCESS - IN CAB UNDER CARPET. FOR ADDITIONAL INFORMATION, REFERENCE THE 2008 F-SUPER DUTY WORKSHOP MANUAL, SECTION 502-02. NOTE: IT IS MANDATORY TO USE ONLY HAND TOOLS TO REMOVE BODY MOUNTING BOLTS. NOTE: THE BOLTS ARE DESIGNED TO STRIP BEFORE THE NUT AND A STRIPPED BOLT DOES NOT NECESSARILY MEAN THE NUT HAS BEEN DAMAGED. NUTS SHOULD BE EXAMINED FOR DAMAGE BEFORE THEY ARE ORDERED. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LARRY BRUDZYNSKI Posted March 26, 2007 Share Posted March 26, 2007 Keith, do you think heating the bolts up 1st might be a little easier, or do you think it would screw up the heat treat on them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted March 26, 2007 Share Posted March 26, 2007 Interesting thought. I think that would definitely work but you need to be careful not to damage the rubber insulator under the nut. Regulating temperature would be crucial but not very difficult. A hand-held propane torch would do the trick and I doubt that would be enough heat to change the temper of the steel. Then you would need to wait to let the heat travel up the bolt and allow the thread lock to soften. It would still be quicker than accessing all those nuts! Certainly less aggravating and of course you could be doing other things... You get a gold star for that one! I'll have to test this when I get the chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LARRY BRUDZYNSKI Posted March 26, 2007 Share Posted March 26, 2007 Haven't checked it out yet but probably is less $'s and less hassle than screwing around with those weld nuts. I guess we need to be careful not to burn the truck to the ground even though some of us might prefer that method. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/drinkingdude.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselD Posted March 26, 2007 Share Posted March 26, 2007 I dont think they have much trouble have the means to burn themselfs down to the ground with things like thermal events! It wouldnt take much heat to loosen up that loctight. Ford trys to make something easier and makes it more difficult in the process....go figure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torqued_Up Posted March 26, 2007 Share Posted March 26, 2007 So, Ford finally catches on that we pull bodies. They do their part to make it faster, ie harder to beat warranty time. And they !@#!?$! it all up in the process. Good job, jerks... Thanks for the heads up Greg I see there is a SSM too. I applaud Ford for their efforts in making trhe process easier. You probably cant hear me because I am clapping with one hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rickster42 Posted March 26, 2007 Share Posted March 26, 2007 well I had 2 body nuts spin on the body that I took off. And let me tell ya, I used hand tools to try and loosen them first... The one under the carpet was no big deal, but the front r/h side one WAS a big deal.I had to cut the bolt off. You cant access the nut straight on from the top,you can only see about 50% of the nut.I finally had to cut a small hole with a holesaw and center the nut and mig it. I could see no other way to do it.What strikes me as a rear future disaster,is that every body mount I removed was FULL of water,this was on a truck with 300kms on it.Its almost like I could hear them starting to rust.... Oh yea, when I was trying to get a body nut, parts had to phone ford as it isn`t listed.Parts hotline told them its only avail with the cab!(a few weeks ago anyways).Cool I said order one,I could use the old one for a treehouse for my kids...hehe Didn`t go over too well, hence the mig weld... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 Fuck me! It's not like this is my first cab off as I have done a dozen or so... and it's like not like I don't know to remove cab bolts by hand... and it's not like I haven't developed a successful technique... and it's not like this truck hasn't had the cab off before 'cause it did... So how the hell did I spin two cage nuts today? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregH Posted April 24, 2009 Author Share Posted April 24, 2009 Don't feel bad, stud... I spun two yesterday. B and C on the left side, and I spun them when I was putting the truck back together! WTF?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mekanik Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 I have taken several of these bodies off and I think I have always at least spun one of the front bolts if not more. I actually broke a bolt the last one I did. My parts guy was telling me that I would need to get the whole core support to get a front bolt, but one of the bolts from the old 1998 subframe recall fits perfectly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DwayneGorniak Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 Just wait till these things get some years on them. I have posted about this issue on Protech before as well. One of the major issues is that water migrates down the threads from the top and rusts the hell out of these bolts. I allways use heat, but still have some spin. Nothing like hot water pouring down your friggin forearms. You would think these Jackass Engineers would have learned from that Taurus/Sable subframe recall, But Noooooo. Why would they worry about these issues? They don't have to work on these things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshbuys Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 Interesting thought. I think that would definitely work but you need to be careful not to damage the rubber insulator under the nut. Regulating temperature would be crucial but not very difficult. A hand-held propane torch would do the trick and I doubt that would be enough heat to change the temper of the steel. Then you would need to wait to let the heat travel up the bolt and allow the thread lock to soften. It would still be quicker than accessing all those nuts! Certainly less aggravating and of course you could be doing other things... You get a gold star for that one! I'll have to test this when I get the chance. Excellent Idea.....This is exactly what I do every time I pull the cab. all are fairly easy to heat without damaging the rubber insulators except the 2 shorter bolts (only used on extended and crew cabs). These 2 don't have the large metal washer on them and so the rubber is exposed to the flame from the torch. Also I use MAPP gas as it burns a bit hotter than propane and makes the process slightly faster. If you spin one of the nuts on the shorter(red loctite) bolts they are accessible by pulling the rear bottom door trim and lifting the carpet enough to put in a socket and breaker bar and then running it out with an impact from the bottom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.