Alex Bruene Posted July 14, 2007 Share Posted July 14, 2007 Is this a sign of things to come?? http://www.powerstroke.org/forum/6-4-motor-problems/17342-i-did.html/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/banghead.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Clayton Posted July 14, 2007 Share Posted July 14, 2007 I can't believe all the tards that are congradulating the guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Mutter Posted July 14, 2007 Share Posted July 14, 2007 diablosport has a tuner out,they said it makes a stock truck run mid 14 teens, I guess no one can stop this,in the end it just makes our job harder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted July 14, 2007 Share Posted July 14, 2007 Ironically, I just joined that forum this week. I am a member of almost every forum out there but I never got to powerstroke.org thinking... I don't know. Anyway, it looks like a huge congregation of modification craziness and guys who have absolutely no clue. I have made only a few posts and I am keeping control of not getting involved in any mod-related discussions. Now, as for hollowing out the DPF and the oxy-cat, the guy mentioned that he left the sensors alone. Wouldn't the ECM pick up on the fact that there is NO back pressure and the pre and post temp sensors show the same temperature? He also suspects that the lack of pressure means that regen will never happen... Might want to put that guy in my favorites and follow his posts for a while, see if anything odd gets reported. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaysonfordtech Posted July 14, 2007 Share Posted July 14, 2007 it's like watching a retard with a razor blade, you just know what is going to happen. I could not stop reading the posts. You know it was dealing with the owners of these truck that was one of the things that made me decide to go back to college. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Clayton Posted July 14, 2007 Share Posted July 14, 2007 There is an old saying "loose lips sink ships", well I think that guys boat is sunk. Anybody with a computer now knows the history on his truck, it would not be hard for him to find himself black listed from warranty repairs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted July 14, 2007 Share Posted July 14, 2007 That brings up another point. There are those that claim "Ford will void their warranty" -or- "your truck will get flagged on OASIS" -or- as you say, "black listed." I have never heard of such a thing or have seen anything on OASIS. We do know that these aftermarket devices and modifications do not mean that the vehicle or engine warranty is not automatically *voided* rather, damage and repairs caused by, or related to the use of such devices will not be covered. There is a big difference and I think that the confusion is in how to interpret and enforce that. Any seasoned technician knows the weak points of any engine including the common or "pattern' failures that accompany each. For example, we all know that 6.0L head gaskets can, and do fail on stock engines but we all know that adding a tuner for example will exponentially raise the likeliness of a head gasket failure. I for one like to know the whole story and look the entire truck over before concluding the root cause of a failure is due to a specific performance device or abuse. Don't get me wrong, I lean towards following Fords guidelines because I believe they deserve the final word when it comes to their product and their warranty. I think THIS POST by GregH speaks volumes for how we as techs need to think and use good judgment. The comment about Ford getting involved an having to fix the truck anyway is a disgusting paradox in and of itself. That is what gets my knickers in a knot when someone questions MY judgment concerning a repair. Back to the "tards;" I have largely given up on educating and offering an opinion. Most of these owners that mod their trucks have a deep rooted sense that (we) dealer techs and Ford are out to get them and don't know what we are doing. I think that if there really WAS a black list or OASIS flag, nothing would change. As long as Ford Motor Company continues to flip-flop like a Democrat running for office, the warranty policy and the enforcement there of, will always be subject to "someone's" interpretation or judgment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Clayton Posted July 14, 2007 Share Posted July 14, 2007 The reason I worded my post the way I did is because the fellow is trying to be sneaky about his mods. He should just man up and put the aftermarket parts on then take his chances with the dealer when something breaks. I for one am very understanding and forgiving on a case by case basis with modded trucks. But if some guy is gonna lie to me and say "hey take a look it's all stock" (when it's not), makes it tough to be in the guy's corner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony302600 Posted July 14, 2007 Share Posted July 14, 2007 I had a early 03 6.0 excursion that wouldnt relearn turbo and flutter a lot after performing 06e17, monster exhaust, massive intercooler, cold air, u name it. Wuts the 2nd step in that TSB, "look for any aftermarket intake/exhaust modifications, if so return to stock." read it to the customer, he got pissed because it didnt do if before the reprogram, and thats sad because he's a super nice guy who bought the truck modded, doesnt have the stock parts, and it has 137,000 on it when he bought it at 110,000. Thank god he comes in, and i think he's saving up for his CP headgasket job Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaysonfordtech Posted July 14, 2007 Share Posted July 14, 2007 I have seen oasis flags for voided warranty for salvage title and flags for being from the great white north. We also have been getting emails from regional reps saying look out for so and so vin and customer because he/she is shopping for warranty and there has been proven tuner damage. I have done this myself. I had a blown headgasket and the guy left the programmer he took off in the backseat. I had the service manager take the pictures and ship them off to the rep and denied the warranty for that service. Must be Republican reps out here. LOL. If they are they are Republicans they are one of the few here in the People Repubic of Washington. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted July 14, 2007 Share Posted July 14, 2007 So, wouldn't it make sense for there to be something under the WARNING MESSAGES in OASIS reports? I have seen "vehicle scrapped" on an OASIS before. Maybe Ford can add a "MODIFIED VEHICLE" warning? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted July 14, 2007 Share Posted July 14, 2007 I've seen notes to the affect "check warranty status...". Not sure what that is about... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted July 14, 2007 Share Posted July 14, 2007 Did anyone read very far into the thread?.... Too hot outside to do anything right now, so I braved it out.... Along about post 39 (06/20/07), bozos truck went into regen... Post 139 (07/05/07)... and the truck is still in regen.... Maybe there is a God, after all..... /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted July 14, 2007 Share Posted July 14, 2007 Maybe there is. Remember I stated that I try to refrain from dealing with these people and their problems? I almost slipped! Maybe when I sober up from my Saturday beer buzz I will reconsider posting this in the above mentioned thread: Quote: See I wanted to do that too, but then my buddy started to talk to me about how much work would go into the straight pipe with the different sized bungs for the sensors and then to make it go from 3 1/2in. pipe to 5in would be a lot of hard work and if the dealership saw a straight pipe then they might just say no! straight up, but with it on there there really shouldn't be any reason for them to look at it, 400 miles and counting and no CEL. So, okay. Deep breath... When you DO have a problem and you NEED a technician at the dealer to repair your broken truck, it doesn't bother you one bit that you created the potential for him to waste a lot of time looking at your engine data and end up focusing on the lack of back pressure and the lack of temperature differential from the oxy-cat to the DPF outlet? Unless your gutting of the catalyst and the DPF IS the cause of the problem, a lot of time can be wasted chasing a condition you created and not diagnosing the real problem. This is a key statement as you are now well beyond any potential warranty problems with Ford Motor Company. Not all techs are the same with respect to modified trucks but we do have one thing in common: we work for a living and we don't like being mislead while doing so. Given the fact that you have taken measures to hide what you have done, I predict that you will not be bent over, but instead, folded in half and done twice as hard. As a technician, I would actually PREFER to see the straight pipe so that I know EXACTLY what I am dealing with and will be in a much better position to assist you. You may still be held liable for the repair but at the very least I will give you a proper diagnosis and an HONEST report. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Clayton Posted July 14, 2007 Share Posted July 14, 2007 Holy crap, you took the words right out of my mouth!! That sums it up completely, and nothing else can put it any straighter. I like it, and I would fire that post off immediately, to wake the guy up. I personally don't see why he's interested in any warranty problems, him and his buddy obviously have enough money to burn if they purposely destroyed a couple of thousand dollars worth of parts on a brand new truck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Amacker Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 OK, OK, I agree with you guys on this. I have a slight sidebar I'd like to discuss while we're at it- the captures I have show no increase in temp on EGT 11, 12, and 13 like I think Keith alludes to. The captures I have actually show a decrease from 11 to 12 and 13. I've argued with guys who were still checking cats on gassers like we did in the '70's with an IR gun- if you don't put any trash into the cat, there won't be anything to burn, and hence no temp increase. My thinking is these days that (since EFI came in) cars and the 6.4 runs so clean that there (may) well not be any temp increase 'cause there's no large amount of trash (HC, particulates, etc) in the exhaust mix. Are you guys seeing increased temps from 11 to 12 and 13? Maybe it's just the trucks and situations I was in. My captures are at 0VSS, but I've also got MaxForce 7 (IH 6.4) captures at idle and 70MPH 100% AP that agree. I wunner why the temps are dropping in almost all of the captures I have? Do you think the PCM cares as long as there's no meltdown temps or big PSI restriction happening? Even at 70MPH and 100% AP there's less than 1 psi at the DPF. There's nothing relevant in Mode 6 other than cat efficiency. I would like to see DPF restriction limit high/low cuts there. I sure hope Keith sobers up before he flames me to death....... /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/flamethrower.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 I'm not going to flame you Bruce! But I will dispute that I was not eluding to either an increase or decrease because if you see enough data representing the three sensors at idle, part throttle and hard acceleration you can make distinct characterizations. At idle, since EGT11 is before the DOC and EGT12 is after the DOC, an increase should be noticeable as the catalyst burns off hydrocarbons. As RPM's and load increases, this will level off some and hard acceleration should show EGT11 the highest with EGT12 lower and EGT13 the lowest as it will be during all three scenarios. This is under normal conditions with no faults and not in regeneration. Unfortunately, I have not had the opportunity to perform any diagnostics on a 6.4L so I have no live data to go by. I DO have all of my training materials in front of me that clearly shows these temperature differentials on PID data from the exercises we completed in training. In any event, while monitoring all three exhaust gas temperature sensors you SHOULD be able to detect some reaction taking place at the catalyst whether it be higher or lower than what is coming from the engine. If EGT11 and EGT12 are basically reading the same, especially through acceleration and deceleration then it's time to inspect the kitty for missing substrate. If my training was wrong, then I am fucked and I should probably go and make some recordings to study... not a bad idea either way. Beer please! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DwayneGorniak Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 I couldn't help it. As painstaking as it was I read that thread to the end and the jackass still doesn't have it figured out. But my Dad always had this wise saying that I use regularly eith some customers and was reminded of by this Tit: It takes and asshole to make a piece of shit! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 OK.... in class, we didn't have the time (or the students) to get into any real esoteric discussion of the exhaust system.... so you guys will have to take my hand and guide me a little here (either that, or I'm going to ask questions that'll make people stammer)..... Starting with the DOC (no, not the Doc....), I'm wondering what is happening.... This thing is going to react unburned HCs, right? So, in the event of an active regen, is the DOC being flooded so bad with HCs that it can't light them off and the DPF is going to use this fuel in it's function (FWIW, if regen occurs at idle or even low speed/light load, I understand the EGRTP is active... and this could restrict oxygen flow through the engine). So, here we are adding unburned HCs to the exhaust stream, the DOC simply HAS to be working it's heart out and the monolith isn't going to melt? As far`as soot is concerned, I would expect almost any sort of "spirited driving" or other operation that would keep EGTs up should be enough to minimize buildup.. OK... so we're in an active regen and we've somehow managed to get HCs through the DOC and in to the DPF.... If the DOC is reacting the HCs, wouldn't we expect to see a temp increase between EGT11 and EGT12? And another, corresponding, increase between EGT12 and EGT13???? But what about a passive regen? Nothing I have read indicates additional fuel for a passive regen so I must 'assume' that this is going to happen simply because we can get the soot (basically like charcoal, right?) hot enough and feed it enough O2 for it to self-destruct. Will we see a corresponding temp rise across the three EGTs if there is no additional fuel introduced? DPF pressure..... Reference values give a very small acceptable range... 1.18PSI @65 mph.... I'm going to hazard a guess that they will look at EBP_A and a few other things and compare the DPF reading to an "expected" DPF reading.... let's not forget that we will probably see some sort of pressure drop across the DOC. After it's been in service for a while, a couple of PSI might not be a far-fetched number - especially if the owner gets rambunctious. I think this is going to be one hell of a learning curve, in some respects..... Our ears are going to be valuable in telling us if we need to look for hidden changes. As Bruce has eluded to.... Back when gasoline fuel systems were crude (upstream O2s only - often, only one on a V motor, located in one exhaust manifold.... the other banks readings were "inferred" from the measured banks readings), using an IR thermometer worked quite well at diagnosing a lot of catalyst concerns.... Applying 80s testing can be a grand old way to check some things... but checking cats with a thermometer can get us into trouble...especially if one cat is plugged (DAMHIKT). It appears that it wont be any time soon that I get to play with one of these... But, man, I think it could be interesting... And I have to go back to work on Monday..... /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crybaby2.gif . Judging from the few times I was called over my holiday (God, ain't it great to be popular?), my first week back is NOT going to be a walk in the park... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Clayton Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 I find it amazing how quick the aftermarket jumped on this powertrain. Google "6.4l" and the choices are endless for power adders. I was told by Ford a while back that this vehicle would be unchippable. I guess they were being optomistic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 Well you are right that we are at the beginning of a giant learning curve. I now have a reason to start playing around with a truck and make some PID recordings. In the powerstroke.org thread, the guys thought that with no back pressure at all, regen would never happen... they may be right but if the ECM was programmed to monitor and EXPECT DPF back pressure to raise to an expected level by a certain mileage interval you would think it can detect something is amiss. Since the 6.4L OBDII Theory and Operation has not been released yet we cant read up on this yet. One more thing, I am not finding consistent data relating to EGT sensors which includes my data, stuff Bruce just sent me and reference values in the PCED. Until we determine a common idea of what we should see from the temperature sensors perhaps we need to attack this from a fifferent direction? A good starting point might /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/shrug.gif be to go find a truck that is being driven, like a salesman's DEMO and pull the hose off of the pressure sensor and see what happens. This will tell us if the ECM detects the lack of back pressure and if it even "cares." It would also be nice to know EXACTLY what determines when a regen is needed -officially. The Web Based Training shows that active regeneration is initialized when the PDF pressure sensor indicates it is necessary based on calibrated levels. I believe this to be true but read what is in red below... with no mention of the DPF Pressure sensor. Am I missing something? The PCED gives us this: Quote: Diesel Particulate Filter Regeneration Note: Regeneration may occur during normal operation. During regeneration, diagnostic procedures may display biased values. If a regeneration occurs during diagnostic procedures, allow the process to complete before continuing diagnostics. During normal vehicle operation the PCM estimates the amount of particulates that accumulate in the diesel particulate filter. The estimated amount of particulates is based on the vehicle operating conditions such as speed and load. Additionally the PCM monitors the following: amount of time since the last diesel particulate filter regeneration battery voltage distance traveled since the last diesel particulate filter regeneration engine coolant temperature (ECT) engine speed exhaust gas temperature bank 1, sensor 1 (EGT11) exhaust gas temperature bank 1, sensor 2 (EGT12) exhaust gas temperature bank 1, sensor 3 (EGT13) fuel level fuel temperature intake air temperature (IAT) turbocharger condition When the appropriate conditions are met, the PCM initiates a diesel particulate filter regeneration. The diesel particulate filter regeneration can occur at idle. The PCM may increase the engine speed at idle to maintain the correct temperature conditions for an optimum diesel particulate filterregeneration. Quote: Diesel Particulate Filter Monitor The powertrain control module (PCM) monitors the diesel particulate filter for leaks in the filter substrate. The diesel particulate filter requires preconditioning before the monitor is enabled. There are two tests that comprise the diesel particulate filter monitor. The first test is an efficiency monitor that compares the restriction of the diesel particulate filter to restriction values, which are a function of exhaust flow. The second test is a differential pressure monitor that compares the measured differential pressure across the diesel particulate filter to threshold values, which are a function of exhaust flow. The diesel particulate filter monitor is enabled and continuously runs after a preconditioning of 5,000 km (3,107 miles) when certain base engine conditions are first satisfied. The typical monitoring duration for this monitor is 2 minutes. Inputs from the crankshaft position (CKP), engine coolant temperature (ECT), exhaust gas temperature (EGT), and diesel particulate filter pressure sensors are required to enable the monitor. The monitor entry conditions include: diesel particulate filter regeneration is inactive one complete diesel particulate filter regeneration has occurred time from last diesel particulate filter regeneration is greater than 300 seconds exhaust flow between 400 - 2,000 m3/hour (14,125.9 - 70,629.3 ft3/hour) no fuel injector concerns preconditioning distance of 5,000 km (3,107 miles) For the efficiency monitor test, the PCM determines a restriction threshold value for the amount of restriction that should be present in the filter for a certain exhaust flow rate. The PCM compares the measured restriction, which is based primarily on the diesel particulate filter pressure sensor measurement to the restriction threshold value. A fault filtering counter starts when the monitor begins to run. When the measured restriction is less than the restriction threshold, the counter increases. When the measured restriction is greater than the restriction threshold, the counter decreases. If the number of counts on the counter at the end of the monitor exceeds a calibrated limit the diagnostic trouble code (DTC) P2002 is set and the malfunction indicator lamp (MIL) illuminates. For the differential pressure monitor test, the PCM determines a differential pressure threshold for the amount of pressure that should be measured by the diesel particulate filter pressure sensor for a certain exhaust flow rate. The PCM compares the measured differential pressure value to the differential pressure threshold value. A fault filtering counter starts when the monitor begins to run. When the measured differential pressure is less than the threshold value, the counter increases. When the measured differential pressure is greater than the threshold value, the counter decreases. If the number of counts on the counter at the end of the monitor exceeds a calibrated limit the DTC P244A is set and the MIL illuminates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Amacker Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 OK.... in class, we didn't have the time (or the students) to get into any real esoteric discussion of the exhaust system.... so you guys will have to take my hand and guide me a little here (either that, or I'm going to ask questions that'll make people stammer)..... Starting with the DOC (no, not the Doc....), I'm wondering what is happening.... This thing is going to react unburned HCs, right? Correct. So, in the event of an active regen, is the DOC being flooded so bad with HCs that it can't light them off and the DPF is going to use this fuel in it's function No. In the event of an active regen, the DOC will burn the HC's and O2 present like an oven to heat the DPF and burn the carbon out. My opinion is the DPF won't have much or any burn going on inside of it. (FWIW, if regen occurs at idle or even low speed/light load, I understand the EGRTP is active... and this could restrict oxygen flow through the engine). Here's my opinion of regen; My guess is, 95% of trucks on the road will rarely, if ever, see a regen. Regen is needed only after a period of extended idle or low speed operation. My opinion is that almost all trucks see enough exhaust temps to keep the DPF clean, even in city driving. Extended boom/PTO use, plant trucks (unlicensed, in plant use only), or maybe lazy foreman who sit idling with the A/C on all day may be the most likely participants of an active regen. My guess is it will take 8-16 hours of idlng before an active regen is needed. This is merely a guess at this point. So, here we are adding unburned HCs to the exhaust stream, the DOC simply HAS to be working it's heart out and the monolith isn't going to melt? Remember the 70's with sunk floats in carbs and glowing cats? They still worked correctly after that. As far as soot is concerned, I would expect almost any sort of spirited driving or other operation that would keep EGTs up should be enough to minimize buildup. My opinion? It won't even take spirited driving. I feel the DPF will keep itself very clean with any type of over 20MPH driving. I think the DPF needs 1200F to self-clean. OK... so we're in an active regen and we've somehow managed to get HCs through the DOC and in to the DPF.... If the DOC is reacting the HCs, wouldn't we expect to see a temp increase between EGT11 and EGT12? Yes, there should be a substantial increase here during regen, if it ever occurs. And another, corresponding, increase between EGT12 and EGT13???? This I'm not sure about. I think EGT13 might be dropped after a few years. My guess is that EGT13 won't be doing a whole lot besides telling us nothing's wrong. Maybe it will work as a spare sensor that we can swap when EGT11 or 12 dies an early death. The DPF is not a cat, only a filter, right? Shouldn't there be little chemical reaction going on in it? The only time EGT13 should read upward is during an active regen. But what about a passive regen? Nothing I have read indicates additional fuel for a passive regen so I must 'assume' that this is going to happen simply because we can get the soot (basically like charcoal, right?) hot enough and feed it enough O2 for it to self-destruct. Right. Will we see a corresponding temp rise across the three EGTs if there is no additional fuel introduced? My opinion? Only a really loaded DPF (10-20 hours of idle time, with level 2 or 3 warning lights on the dashboard) will see increased EGT12/13 temp, and it might not even be a lot. Remember we don't have a mountain of "charcoal" to burn here, and there's a ton of air flow at this point. That translates to a whole bunch of BTU's needed to increase the EGT12 enough to read on the scan tool. The amount of carbon/soot present won't generate enough BTU's for a large increase in EGT12. Passive regen will keep the DPF clean with little or no increase in EGT12, if you ask me. DPF pressure..... Reference values give a very small acceptable range... 1.18PSI @65 mph.... I'm going to hazard a guess that they will look at EBP_A and a few other things and compare the DPF reading to an "expected" DPF reading.... I'm thinking there's going to be a high limit only, indicating a need for regen, or (after a bunch of miles), the need for removal and cleaning/replacement of the DPF. This goes back to my thinking that I'll be surprised if "Joe Dickhead" will get a CEL/DTC for a gutted DPF. The exception to this is if the engineers put a minimum restriction on the DPF pressure sensor, looking for gutted DPF's? let's not forget that we will probably see some sort of pressure drop across the DOC. After it's been in service for a while, a couple of PSI might not be a far-fetched number – You mean DPF, not DOC, right? The recording I have on a new IH shows .04psi at idle, .28psi at WOT 0MPH, and .96psi WOT 70MPH. especially if the owner gets rambunctious. I would think rambunctious would keep it cleaner, no? I think this is going to be one hell of a learning curve, in some respects..... Our ears are going to be valuable in telling us if we need to look for hidden changes. As Bruce has eluded to.... Back when gasoline fuel systems were crude (upstream O2s only - often, only one on a V motor, located in one exhaust manifold.... the other banks readings were "inferred" from the measured banks readings), I was talking about pre-closed loop carb systems of the late '70's with cats and no O2's! Those babies worked a cat harder than any cat built in the last few decades. You're an old fart, right? You remember the '70's don't you? Or are those memories very cloudy and smoky like mine...!? /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/cool.gif using an IR thermometer worked quite well at diagnosing a lot of catalyst concerns.... Applying 80s testing can be a grand old way to check some things... but checking cats with a thermometer can get us into trouble...especially if one cat is plugged (DAMHIKT). Checking a cat with an IR will get you into trouble, assuming it is a closed loop system that works. On a closed loop system, there is practically nothing burnable coming out of the engine (again, assuming the O2's work). This translates to practically nothing burning in the cat. Once again, given the gross amount of air (etc) passing through the cat, there has to be a bunch of BTU's made before the inlet/outlet temps change upward enough to be read with an IR gun. I've had this argument many times with gas guys and proved it out many times with a late car idling on the rack. The cat outlet temp is always colder than the inlet temp, 'cause there's almost nothing to burn in the exhaust that leaves the engine on a car in closed loop. Ohio has been doing emission testing for decades, and I've been a licensed tester for decades. The only time the cat outlet is hotter than the cat inlet is if the car is in open loop, or it's a '70's model with a carb and no feedback. I've had numerous cars with gutted O2's pass Ohio's sniffer test. Ohio does not have tough standards, and this would not happen in a "green state". We dropped the sniffer test on most cars in favor of the OBD plug in test several years ago. It will be interesting to see how many of my theories prove out as fact and how many end up as bunk. It appears that it wont be any time soon that I get to play with one of these... But, man, I think it could be interesting... And I have to go back to work on Monday..... /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crybaby2.gif . Judging from the few times I was called over my holiday (God, ain't it great to be popular?), my first week back is NOT going to be a walk in the park... You're STILL on vacation? My god man! 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Jim Warman Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 Bruce... under some conditions, I do expect to see a pressure drop across the DOC.... even though I have no idea what the monolith can flow, I can almost see a time when soot can reduce the DOC flow enough to generate some sort of backpressure..... this may be a false assumption, but experience is what we will need for this to be proven or disproven... On a gas engine, if we are looking for a plugged cat, smart money is on fuel trims..... a plugged cat will give big plus numbers on one side and big negatives on the other.... sadly, being a fat old mindless man, I can never remember which is what. Something that I would like to see... and this might take the addition of a "temporary use" class of licence (our toys, if you will) is an "anti-tampering" law... one with teeth. I'm not a screaming enviro-weinie.... but our daily transportation should adhere to some guidelines that will, at the very least, give our offspring some modicum of comfort that our planet will be viable for years to come..... Bozo in the original link is the progenitor of a brand new class of idiot... With absolutely nothing to go on in the way of diagnostic exprience with the 6.4, someone is going to add a hidden "wild card"..... And we will have to be able to reconcile this in our diagnostic routine.... I haven't been there so I can only assume that I will recognize the audible clues... or is that "hope"..... What I can see... While we may overlook a tuner (for some customers) or other mods on the 6.0, we are left wondering if this is going to be at all possible on the 6.4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony302600 Posted July 17, 2007 Share Posted July 17, 2007 6.4 Check sheet that states aftermarket components wont affect warranty Thats the link for the FORD check sheet that clearly states, aftermarket equipment will not effect warranty unless it is the causal part of the failure. Now taht is bullshit from wut we've been told. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Bruene Posted July 18, 2007 Author Share Posted July 18, 2007 It's legal mumbo-jumbo... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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