mchan68

We had one tech that, without fail, would bend a pushtube every time... The lastfew years he was with us he would call me to install his pushtubes for him...

Awwwww how cute Jim. Do you have to hold his hand and change his diapers too?

Okay, removing/replacing the drive belt on a 6.0L is old news to most of us by now. After watching the video, I fail to see any useful purpose for both the tool itself and the bungee cord. What's wrong with simply giving the belt one hard yank and slipping the lock tab into place (or an appropriately sized bolt if it's MIA)? And what about dual alternator trucks?

With all the shit litres and 6.4L trucks that have been coming in lately, I could use an engine job on an Escape or Edge/MKX right now. It sure would be a nice break from these pieces of rat turds on wheels. But yeah, I always drop the entire powertrain when working on these vehicles. To me, it's not worth the aggravation trying to fight with them in vehicle, for the relative ease that they are to drop.

You're right, I found a wrecking yard with a fresh hit 6.7 and bought everything I need for great cutaways in class- engine assy, intercooler, secondary radiator, FP, fuel cooler, DEF tank, NOx module, and complete aftertreatment system. It was a 250 with a bed so it has the dual impeller turbo, and man, was it hit hard! I didn't see any blood in the cab but the FD cut the roof off to extricate the driver. There's virtually nothing usable in the complete cab assy and the driveline even took hard hits breaking things like driveshaft flanges and other not-so-soft stuff. The dash cluster is a joke so mileage is unknown, but with the telltale grease stains spreading from various areas I'm guessing it's an early build with 20K or more miles on it. My Dearborn connection was coming up empty so I pulled the trigger on buying one. Unfortunately I probably won't really work on it until spring......

 

So how much was the hooping for everything you bought? I agree with Jim's suggestion on running the VIN through OASIS to narrow down approximate mileage. What was the condition of the driver (I'm assuming he was the lone occupant of the vehicle)?

I was finally able to obtain a borescope thin enough to inspect the pick up on the CAM. The peg was covered in a coating of sludgey almost tar like oil. Lots of "coking" around the peg with this substance. I blasted some brake clean into the hole and had to stab away at the peg with a coat hanger, finally was able to get it cleaned up. Haven't had a no start issue since. Lack of maintenance. I'm very skeptical this is the actual fix.......

 

 

At this point, I would be wondering what the condition of the rest of the parts are like, particularly the injectors. We all know how much those HUEI injectors love a lack of oil changes. If there is sludge on the cam peg, I would also wonder about the crank trigger wheel as well. How well does this engine run, otherwise?

Stupid question. Is the CMP sensor fastened to the block with the original bolt? You didn't happen to drop the bolt and replace it with one slightly longer (causing the CMP not to seat fully into the block) did you?

No cam signal to PCM after already replacing sensor and harness? How rusty is your engine block? Any chance there's enough rust on the block to prevent the CMP from having a proper air gap?

 

Jeff beat me to it. I was wondering the exact same thing. But I figured Scott had already checked those items BEFORE replacing the harness and CMP.

If your DVOM is capable of reading in Hz, you can connect them to the CKP and CMP circuits by snipping off the old pigtails from the harness and using them. You should be seeing 150 to 200 Hz from the CKP circuit, directly proportional to engine RPM and 1.1 to 1.9 Hz for the CMP circuit when the engine is cranking over. Those are specs that Hotline gave me one time. I know it likely won't help you with telling you if cam and crank are in time, but by virtue of the fact that the engine runs I doubt base engine/valve timing is of any issue here.

Replaced the engine harness Mr.Chan 12B637...going to swap in a known good PCM, wish me luck.

What happens when you wiggle test the 9D930 harness? Swapping in a PCM is very quick and easy but I doubt a PCM will cause what your describing.

Which harness did you replace? The ENGINE (12B637) harness or the FICM (9D930) harness?

Here's interesting food for thought. I'm well aware that there are a lot of differences between the 6.0L and 6.4L engines. It seems that we unanimously agree that the inherrent cause for 6.0L heads to lift off the blocks is due to a design flaw (only ten head bolts securing the head to the block per bank). How many of you have had to deal with this issue on the 6.4L? How hard would it be for someone to yank the block, modify it by retapping all cylinder bolt holes to accept the same bolts that 6.4L engines use and re-install everything back together using ARP head studs for a 6.4L to make a completely bulletproof 6.0L setup. If such a setup were even possible, this would cater to those who do not like the 6.4L for their own reasons. Just a thought.

That's more than fair. As mentioned earlier I haven't had much "harness" experience (only on econolines, my cherry will be popped if/when I put a harness in this f-series).... I wish I could prove it was the harness before putting one in it. Then again I had an e-series where I couldn't prove it was a harness until I put one in it, nothing better than contradicting myself.

 

Thanks again for your help guys!

 

If reassurance is what you're looking for, hear this one out.

 

You know how there are some vehicles, that you get coming in regularly where you NEVER have issues and everything goes smoothly? And then you get the ones that come in that EVERY time you have to wrench on it, just about every fastener or component fights you all the way to the end of the job.

 

Well, I had one such truck, a 2004 F-Series (with a 2003 engine). He's a good customer that comes in regularly for ALL work that's needed. I replaced an ICP sensor and connector about two years ago to repair a P2285 and engine surging symptoms. Fast forward 80,000 kms., and the truck is back with the same issue, only it's on an intermittent basis. Since I had already replaced the pigtail connector and it drove 80,000 kms. without issue, I doubt workmanship is playing any kind of role in its second failure. The customer REQUESTED for me to replace another sensor and the whole engine harness this time around. New harness and sensor later, no issues (and we did call the customer back to follow up on it, after the repair).

Monitored FICM voltages during concern, no issues found, (12.5/48.5/12.5)...that didn't seem like a good enough answer for tech line though as they want me to install spare ficm to "give it a try"...I do not own a "known good ficm" nor do we have any six ohs on the lot that I can rob one from.

I didn't think a FICM would be an issue either, by what you're describing.

Originally Posted By: deezul

Ive been sent down some wonky paths by tech line before and I just don't want to be wasting my time.....

I couldn't agree more about the time wasting part......

 

That's why my initial reply to this thread was to put a harness in it and be done with it. I believe Alex Bruene posted a while back that you can have these trucks in with some weird issues, pull the harness out and apart, only NOT to be able to find any problem areas that you can see by eye, but put a new harness in and the problem is fixed.

Any chances this could be a ficm issue?

Have you monitored FICM volts during all this (particularly FICM_M)?

Engine harness.

Okay folks, since this engine has now been out a few years, I'd like to think that MOST of us have now become quite comfortable with wrenching on these beasts. That said, I now have some lingering questions in my mind that maybe some of you might have answers to.

 

-Anyone ever notice that '03/'04 engines DO have STC fittings? I am referring to the connection between the HPOP discharge tube to the branch tube. But why do they NEVER blow out like they do on '05 to '07 engines? Is it because the branch tube on '03/'04 engines are BOLTED to the back of the engine block while on '05 to '07 (okay I mean '05 and UP if you include E-Series applications) they are not?

 

-What is the highest mileage you have seen any truck in service on its ORIGINAL EGR cooler last (orange hose and all)? Those that do answer this I suspect are going to say mostly 2003 engines (with the original round style cooler). With the availability of the aftermarket BPD style cooler, has anyone ever personally installed one of these with great success after? If so, you ever wonder why Navistar didn't change the internal design of these coolers?

 

-2003 engines seem to be unique animals. Just about everything inside a 2003 engine is non-interchangeable with 2004 and up engines. Anyone else ever notice the difference in the sounds of a 2003 engine versus a 2004 and up engine? Also, is it just me or does it seem like FICMs fail far less often on 2003 engines (even though they are the same part from 2003 on up to and including 2007 for F-Series applications)? Why is that? Is there SOMETHING in the calibration of 2003 engines that are much less stressful on FICMs?

 

-With update after update after update to engine calibrations, it seems like the latest and greatest level seem to have yielded ZERO complaints from customers. The most current level will now throw the "wrench" light on and de-rate power if necessary when the PCM "sees" turbo overboosting, EOT exceeding ECT by greater than 15*F under any given operating condition and finally if FICM volts decrease below a certain level. It will also "sweep" the vanes if the engine is left idling for more than certain amount of time (although the exact time escapes me for the moment). Why are '03/'04 engines excluded from this seemingly good strategy to have?

 

-With the introduction of the updated dummy plugs and standpipes (the ones with the white teflon rings), I've been upselling them on pretty much every one that comes in retail that I've needed to pull valve covers off for whatever reason. My question though, is if you would push this update on '04 to early '05 models (the ones that use a 1/2" square drive to service)? I don't seem to recall ever seeing one in with the d-rings deteriorated on those particular model year ranges.

 

Sorry if any or all of above post of this thread is considered useless information to any of you. Feel free to add to it if I've left anything out that I may have overlooked.

There have been MANY threads on this topic covered if you do a search. The six bolts on the flange you speak of, are what I call (and what Ford unofficially calls) the "DO NOT FUCK WITH" bolts. You remove the flange, and you replace the crank as well or you end up creating a permanent oil leak. Perhaps it would be wise to quote a short or long block due to the cost involved.

 

A REAR engine school bus with a 6.0L? Never heard or seen one before. Do you have pics?

Man, that first shop is awesome. Wish I worked in it. We're one step above a dirt floor.

I agree. What a Garage Mahal that place looks like!!! Maybe Ford should pay for plane tickets to fly all of us from our dealers to work there for a week or two!!!

Hmmmm. Anyone notice the bellhousing bolt pattern of that engine looks extremely similar to (if it isn't) the 6.7L diesel? So, that tells me that 3.5/3.7L RWD applications use a different pattern than FWD applications (Edge/Flex/Taurus/MKX/MKS/MKT) just like the 3.8L/4.2L used to. As a matter of fact, that almost looks very similar to an SAE pattern, if someone could actually verify it.

Well, for what it's worth, there aren't any separately serviceable parts on these 3.0L Duratec V6s so you might as well price out a short or long block if they want it fixed.

Me personally, I always get the prompt screen "No Later Calibration Available" and then the PCM calibration level.

So...... who was it that you actually saw testing for voltage using AC volts today that sparked this post?

 

Never mind.........

 

I just remembered you mentioning that you were in school this week. You should've asked them if they even completed their basic electrical diagnosis classroom course.

Yes, I do understand that automotive "alternators" create AC voltage which is then rectified... but really? Checking AC voltage on a DC system? I would have expected to have seen this in all of my years in training courses and shop manuals. I even have Googled the subject! Nothing.

Now, now Keith. If you're referring to any vehicle newer than 1996 (OBD-II compliant), you mean GENERATORS right?

 

So...... who was it that you actually saw testing for voltage using AC volts today that sparked this post?

 

I know I tested an automotive component using AC volts today actually, the block heater cord for a 2000 7.3L truck.

To this day I still don't wear safety glasses as much as I should.

I plead guilty to that. Reading this post should get me into the better (and safer) habit of using safety glasses more often, which I have been, with all those Windstar 10S13 recalls coming in lately. When using any grinding or cutting tools, it should be a given that the "safety squint" won't suffice.

Years ago, while replacing a window regulator on a '98 Windstar, as I undid the last of the three 8mm bolts that secure the window motor to the regulator itself, I learned the hard way that there was tension there. Let's just say the teeth on the regulator "bit" my middle finger, causing me to leave a trail of blood as I made my way to the first aid kit for a bandage. After two bandages failed to prevent continuous profuse bleeding, my service manager at the time insisted I go to the hospital to get stitched up.

 

About a month ago, I must've lifted the wheels on an F-250 to re-install them onto the hubs the wrong way, causing sharp pains in my back. As the pain subsided, I never gave it a second thought. Then, a week and half ago, the pain just suddenly returned to the point where I was unable to sit or lie down. The pain was so sharp and intense from the left side of my pelvis radiating down to my left knee that I had to get carted away by an ambulance. The doctor at the hospital gave me two doses of percocet that didn't do squat to kill the pain!!! Eventually, it went away. Apparently, they think it was sciatica that I suffered.