robsmth41

My feelings on this is EGR problems prior to 2011 are not Ford's fault. It's an IH engine. Ford asked for an engine with longevity and emissions compliance, thus the 6.0. It has emissions compliance, but longevity is far from desirable in MANY cases. I'm not sure i comprehend why you say "bought the wrong truck." i mean, if you don't like having a job, let them go buy a chevy or dodge. Personally i'm proud of what our older work trucks are getting done. The only time i've ever seen engine hours really come into play is on the 6.4. But again, we're back to piss poor design by IH. The 6.4 even though advertised to be able to idle endlessly just can't! it's a POS as far as internal design for longevity goes. All of this is being said with no malice or hard feelings because we're entitled to our opinions. But i can't see anything wrong with defeating emissions if emissions are killing the engines and its out of the customers pocket. Its their rig and their perrogative. I've got a 6.0 myself and i've put the delete kit, 4" MPRP turbo back with muffler, and BD Triple Dog on. To me, emissions compliance on a diesel has been a joke. Put a garden hose in the exhaust stream of a running diesel and measure the deadly gases. and then do the same with a gas engine. Which one is gonna kill you faster? just my .02

you're right aaron. i was reading through several tsb's on various makes and models after a HARD night at the bar and not much sleep. goin back reading through, looks like i lumped them together into one...lol the way the regen process fell into that is that a by-product of the elevated oil levels is that the DPF can get drenched in oil internally. That and i was reading a TSB on adding the OCR manual option on 6.7's.

my experience has been pretty much the same as yours bruce. even though the fuel from the pump here in kentucky is some of the worst in the nation, my customers that USE their 6.0's for what they were meant for instead of mall crawlers typically get great service life from them. The harder you run that engine the more likely you will be to have a long lasting engine. Load it up and latch it back is exactly what i tell them.

lol, i'm sure. but its the only true fix to get longevity out of that engine. It simply wasn't designed to be emissions compliant. International will confirm that if you can get them on the phone, which i have a couple of times. Without high-grade, high sulfur diesel it just won't run right long term. with that being said, i have a very good friend whose occupation is hauling exotic cars cross country with his 05 350 and he's knocking on 600,000 miles. But he's also had 4 EGR valves that i put in my self, 8 injectors, 2 coolers, and a half-shell.

Ok, this has been an ongoing repair over the last 6 to 8 months. First time he came in complaint was whining in rear of the truck. Tech narrowed it down to the stump. Rebuilt the hog and shipped it. Customer drove for a couple of months with no real change. Backlash and gear pattern was almost perfect. Came back about a month ago and after everyone on my team, including myself as well as the original tech drove it for a few days we couldn't duplicate. customer came in and drove it for us. He was able to duplicate. The noise only comes in between 58 and 61 miles per hour after the fluid is warm. It traced back to the rear diff. No visible defects, good wear pattern on new gears, axles appeared to be true, good fluid, nothing really to point at! We order and replace the entire center section. Drove with customer again. Noise still there but not as severe this time. Brought back the shop, spun the driveshaft 1/4 turn, noise still there, but even less than previous. Still there nonetheless. My thoughts are leaning toward rear axle housing at this point. Any thoughts? Keep in mind this is an F-450 with the 5 ton rear diff, tried new ring and pinion, then new center section, then rotating the driveshaft.

Keep this in mind Keith, and this is exactly how i explain things to my customers. Diesel engines are progressive repair engines. I don't offer that up as an excuse, but a plain and simple fact. These things are pushed almost to the limits of being a "hot rod" when compared to their gas counterparts. What i mean by that is that the blocks and rotating assemblies are lightened and scalped and chopped and cut down to meet emissions each year. With that come various weak points. And just like when you build a high performance car, as sure as you beef up one area, the next weakest link will have to fail at some point. Whether it was a pre-existing condition or not, we are technicians, not psychics and cannot predict where the next issue will come from. We didn't design them, we didn't break them (in most cases, lol) and we did not make the customer buy them. All we can do is tell them how to fix it now that it is broke and how to prevent this in the future. just my .02

i agree with you Keith. With good fuel and proper maintenance 6-0 will have very few if any EGR issues. But this challenge i issue to anyone. Come to Kentucky as well as a few other non federally regulated states and run fuel samples for cetane level. the 6-0 was designed to run on a minimum of 45 cetane rating. As a diesel owner and someone with access to fuel sample testing, the best i've ever found in this state was 38. The average of all samples being around 33. So even the best maintenance practices have fallen short in my area. The only customers i've encountered who didn't have EGR issues in this area are the ones who i put delete kits on for.

i know this one is old, but i was actually searching for an old SSM and came across this. My experience/findings from past trucks is that this is caused by extensive idling. I've only seen this on boom trucks and or trucks with PTO/PTU's and high idle capability. there is/was a tsb or ssm in regards to the 6.4 "growing oil." Fords explanation to me over the phone was that in some cases where extensive idle times are involved the trucks go into a high idle to facilitate PTO/PTU usage and as a result go into regen multiple times through the course of the day. My theory takes effect here on out. The lack of air flow across the vents on the exhaust tip creates a bad re-gen and the excess fuel that isn't being pulled into the DOC goes into the crank case. Ford confirms all but my theory about the tail pipe

early model bully dogs not so much later models are usually ok with updates as long as you update the programmer software same with superchips edge is 50/50 on new versions. if you update PCM Cal older model edge tuners are paperweights, and edge offers no customer support after that Spartan is king! best upgradability on the market...hence the 1200 to 1500 price tag

agreed 110%! We also used it as a follow up to repairs as well

here's one for you guys. Super nice gentleman comes in, has a few lil issues here and there the first time around. Aftermarket warranty pays, no issues. 2nd time around, CEL is on. don't remember specific code, but it was an emissions code, and tech verified internal PCM circuit failure. it gets fun after this point. I call it in, the guy acts like a know-it-all, spouting off shit that had nothing with anything but the price of tea in china, then denies the claim because emissions coverage isnt part of the contract. at the same time he was having issues with the compass in the mirror. claim also denied. glass isnt covered. i'll buy not covering glass. But glass is not the issue. the electronics in the mirror and mirror base are! Needless to say, that company's warranty will never be honored by me at any dealership i will ever work at. Customer filed appeal, got claim including rental paid, and full refund on warranty.

not to go against the grain guys, but i've used the BG Diesel flush products for close to 3 years on the side and sold well over 1000 kits in the shop. If you do it the way BG tells you to you wont see a single result other than smoke and noise. But if you bump your idle up, ESPECIALLY on the EGR portion to around 1750 - 1850 and set your pressure to around 50 - 55 on the canister you will see some amazing results! I'm the last advocate on snake oil products, believe me! But a few years back i was working on a buddies truck and BG had been to the shop earlier that week to demo the complete service so next back at work i grabbed a couple of cans of each and the canisters and flushed his that night, then pulled the intake and couldnt believe what i was seeing. it was a night and day difference.

we just finished up a customer pay 6.4 fuel contamination. put 20 in gas on top of roughly 5 gallons of diesel. drove the truck about 150 miles like that, then got the CEL and it died. showed up here running rough. i ran him through all the scenarios and possibilities, got his john hancock and ended up being around 8400 total. at the same time we had another 08 running rough and dying. manual FP test showed 4000 psi max. secondary housing looked like a silt pond on the bottom. another dealership just put a long block and fuel system in less than 12,000 miles ago. according to the story in the warranty write up there was no evidence of cleaning the fuel tank or flushing the lines after the engine was installed....we fought for the customer as he's a very good guy and a damn hard working contractor, but ford denied CLP, so the customer is going after the last dealership that worked on it....cant say i blame him

A cryin ass shame aint it! lol

Hey Matt, before you replace the injector, check the pins on the injector harness. I've seen it on 7 trucks to date. All of them had pin seperation from the connector and gave a contribution code. just saying

hey keith, do you have a part number for that remover? i've checked rotunda and can't seem to locate it

I saw this same issue at my last shop. tranny had about 39k on it in an f-350 dually. trying to recall the exact failure is evading me right now, but all of the bands were shot and the case had fractures all across the machined surfaces. Sorry i can't shed more technical light on it, but as an advisor my info is limited.

Click Here to Learn More i just finished this article and i'm not sure how to respond! I know there are some that are die hard 6.4 fans, but i am not one of that crowd. They said it was strong and dependable. I most certainly can not agree with that. While i'm not one to bash Ford Trucks, the 6.4 ranks on my list somewhere just below the DirtyMax. The engine is unreliable mostly due to all the lightening and some poor lubrication system engineering. I mean, if they would just redesign the rocker arm to pushrod oiling and delete the passage on the rocker i'm sure it would go a long way to help. then theres the issue of the entire EGR system. Sorry, just had to rant a bit. There is no love loss between me and the 6.4

isnt the turbo on cab/chassis very similar to a 6.0 VGT?

When it comes to A/M warranties i have more than enough horror stories to share. As someone mentioned on page 1 the 6.0 really knocked them down a notch. about 1 in 100 diesels that come through my shop will have an A/M warranty. and when they do, I LOVE IT! They try to haggle and wheel and deal and cut you to the bone by trying to manipulate the labor guides or saying we're not paying you that amount because there is no labor op for what you want to do. i.e. stuck bolt, not paying for fluid, not paying for copper washers. when i run into situations like that and i can't find a way around it, which is not very often, i always have the name and number of the rep that denied payment on said parts so that when the customer comes in to pickup their vehicle and the bill is more than their $100 deductible i calmly and HAPPILY get their A/M company on the phone and let them back pedal. To date, i've only had 2 companies that would not back down. So in the end we discounted the fluids to cost to help the customer out. The best one to date though was on a truck that had the compass and temp in the mirror. the module went out and the display no longer worked. i call the claim in to this A/M company and they denied it IMMEDIATELY on the grounds that they don't cover glass! the glass was fine. it was the electronics which it says on their pamphlet and in the contract. Turned out, the customer was an attorney. not sure what all went on or what was said, but he got his mirror fixed, and they paid for us to do a 60K! Never assume your customer isn't prepared or equipped to protect his/her investment.