HGM

Cant say off the top of my head, but if you contact RTTP or Rotunda directly, they sould be able to answer the questions. If I can remember Monday I'll look into it for you guys.. Now just a disclaimer, the financing is a dealer deal, the dealer needs to approve of it. MAybe you can get several guys to add to the dealer order when they get the IDS. That way its one chunk for them, mayby a payroll deduction for your PDS? The cart appears to be similar to the SBTS..

Good article Keith, Just a couple things I have found that make it easier... First off, I apply air before closing the IPR to allow most of the oil out.. You may not hear an air leak for 5 min or so if its a small one (no start hot).. I prefer the V/C removed, but if you do it your way first it can narrow to one side or the other, might save a bit of time on one cover. Either way, when you find the leak, the covers need to come off..With the covers off, follow with the stethescope(heater hose, amplified EVAP leak detector, etc..) at the exhaust side of the injector/oil rail connection. If there are no leaks found at the injectors, listen around the rear cylinder pushrods(7&8). This will not only identify a leak in the pump area, but if it is louder on one side vs the other, it can identify a leaking stand pipe.(last ditch effort to keep from removing turbo and intake).. Some of you guys may be doing this already or have a system that works for you, but when sombody has a tough one, this can help..

Just a question guys, are you using a stethescope and shop air for the test?

Keith, I may have a little different way of looking at things right now, but I have my reasons... I do completely agree with you too.... I have never been to a class or taken a course that I didnt get something out of.. As a flat rate tech, we get in the habbit of making quick decisions(right or wrong).. The better we understand how something works, the easier, and more right those decisions tend to be, alowing us to make more money and fix more vehicles corectly... It gets under my skin a bit when someone blasts training as being unnecessary because it shows that they either think they know it all or are far too complacent at becoming stagnent.. Perfect example was the 6.0L, although its because the knowledge wasnt there to be had...Ford couldnt provide it because the problems didn start until the trucks were in real world situations... Training on this engine was slow coming about, you guys had to handle the brunt of that and teach yourself... It was tuff... Although learning from hard knocks stays with you a little better, it can wear you out.. Wish we all could have been better prepared before hand.. Unfortunatly that wasnt the case.. When the day comes that I feel I know it all, I'll be getting out of the bussiness because I'll know I lost touch.... Thats just ignorant...

Keith, Like Cetane said, that number is not something someone usually sees.. I dont recall it like that either... The bost wasnt changed all that much over the years.. The issue is the slugfest between the EGR and VGT working over the EBP reading. For boost, any inconsistancies in EBP or EGR can cause VGT surge issues. This guy needs to make a recording, preferably with a VDR and analize the boost pids... These are usually easy fixes if you can get a pacture of it when it happens..

I wouldnt waste my time on a relative test... It is just that, if 4cyl are bad, they all show good.... In this case since it has been dragging on for you, I would do a manual test to find out the truth. Just my opinion of course..

Yes, good point. The more fuel delivered by the chip could cause this. On the 6.0L we have seen sticking turbo's causing overboost and melting pistons, seems like #3 is the most common. Make sure you check boost pressure and turbo operation when you have a 6.0L piston meltdown.

Sorry Bruce, but I totally disagree.. First off, the barrel and plungers are just a small portion of the concern. The Navistar engineers I know, will simpley tell you B5 is max for the 6.0L, maybe you know different guys..The fuel is cleansing, but that is a portion of the concern with delamination. With proper maintenance, it may be ok, but most of the guys out there trying this stuff think if the use it like regular diesel and continue to negletct maint, it will be fine.. Not true. The crud that builds up in the oil after running Bio is what is really hurting the 6.0L injectors. Like I said, its promissing, we just cannot tell people that it is the way to go right yet. It is causing allot of concerns for Ford, that is a fact believe it or not.

The turbo is because of the great filter he has in it, like you said its secondary.It's probably going to need an engine due to the dusting but you need to make sure there isnt something else there.. I would try another PCM,if you have one, before getting into removing the trans. You could also bar the engine ofer and see if you feel excessive drag. Its not scientific, but might give you an idea..

I think since its in its infancy, we'll see allot of progress with Bio. I'm hopefull and would love to see more money staying in this country. The biggest issue we have is the injector operation, maybe with common rail, it will be less pronounced.

I'll take a stab at this one.. Its a relatively new product that were seeing used in a new product so the learning curve is all over the place... The issues we're seeing with Bio is related to the fatty acids in the oil that makes it into the fuel. The "cleaning" process that you hear about is allot more detrimental than you would think. It actually delaminates the tank, cloggs the filters and o-rings, plus causes the sticktion in the injectors... Before you tell me that the sticktion is on the oil side, I understand. Some blowby is normal, most folks running Bio are also running extended oil change intervals as well. The contaminates make it into the oil, causing it to thicken and cause injector failures. So to sum it up, Bio(more than B5) can cause low fuel pressure(killing injectors), contaminated/thickening oil(killing injectors) and can drasticly change drivability with weather change(more intermitant missfires)... I have heard the guys talk about running B100 with no issues.They also tell stories about 50hp increase from a K&N and 25MPG with a 150hp chip.. Sorry, I dont buy it....

There is a cart available in the new Rotunda flier. I prefer the laptop idea myself. First off, allot of guys already have one for one reason or antother. If you were to upgrade if needed, you would have a good personal computer with diag capabilities. This means that it is YOURS, and no one can use it or abuse it unless you let them. You also have the capabilitis of OASIS and Service Pubs at your fingertips, in the truck if needed. Either way, it wont be cheap, but for the piece of mind and less hastle finding or fixing a shop tool, I would like the IDS. You can have it without the expensive piece(VMM). Rotunda, offers financing through the dealers P&A code,so if your dealer is cooperative and willing to help, that may be an option. Tax time is comming too ... Good luck with it guys, I think it will be a good thing. The WDS was a rocky proposition because it wasnt updatable, this should last more than 5yrs, if not, a laptop is something you'll have other uses for.

Are your batteries going dead after 30sec crank time(?They are good, not just new, right??) or is the engine locking up? I would do a voltage drop test on each part of the starting circuit and repair excessive resistance. If that doesnt show anything a compression test may help give you an idea whats going on. With the K&N, I would expect low compression but its spinning slow, not fast.....?.. Are you loosing coolant? Any smoke? BTW, I would remove the chip.. Dont know that it would effect the starting, but you never know..

Biodiesel has been causing that...Check with the cstomer and hope he tell you the truth...Does the exhaust smell like french fries?

Cetane, Please dont let that discourage you, you have alot of valuable info in this area as well. I also believe it may have come back for '06, so things change on a daily basis and my info may not be 100% either.

It's frustrating, not being able to elaberate. But I think you have a good idea of what is there,just a little different.. Right now,I've got a better felling about this engine overall.We'll see what '07 brings...

Keith, the intake hoses make a sharp 90* at the cooler and into the turbo. The pictures arent very clear about that. But yea, we're talking about the same cooler. I agree it would be a bad thing to feed air through it. The test units do have a large amount of wires and hoses on them, so it does get distracting...

Sounds about right to me.I usually key in on the fact that it is for EGR calculations only. On the other hand, the EBP is the primary sensor for the air management system. Even if the MAF was contaminated the EBP would show the incorrect value and the PCM should make the compensations. This is why the MAF went away in '05. I do agree that it could effect in some way, but I too doubt the 2MPG claim. Another thing to add to the topic is with the EGR, you cannot relate it to a gasburner where we have a throttle plate. On the diesel, it can flow just about anytime it wants even at idle and under accel because of the unrestricted airflow. Basicly, it has air to spare. Dont mean to "call you out" just wanted to make sure I have been explaining it right.

Cetane,I have always looked at it a bit differently. Wouldnt the contaminates be an insulator causing the current demand to be less(showing less airflow)?

Quote: First, use the proper terminology is "Dual-Stage Turbocharger" also known as a regulated turbocharger. Since it basically does the same thing that a VGT does, I doubt that the dual-stage turbo would contain a VGT. If you attended the LCF new model training you would be familiar with the set up and how it works. In fact, I was told by the training engineer that the dual-stage assembly was chosen over a VGT because of reliability and performance. We are to see a turbo assembly on the 6.4L PSD that is similar to what is currently being installed on the 4.5L Power Stroke. Having driven 4.5L LCF trucks I can say that the power and boost is smooth. Low-end boost is snappy and I felt that boost and acceleration was seamless throughout acceleration... but it's no 6.0L! [/QB] Keith, Sory, but I beleive this to be incorect...The pictures you have posted may show it if you were to manipulate it a bit. I wouldnt be too confident about VGT going away /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif , but it shouldnt be the disapointment you have seen with the current style. The ones I have seen are quite different than the LCF, but dual stage will still be the correct terminology.

Keith, Picture a 6.0L oil cooler mounted to the intake with fuel lines going to it. Cetane,Manuel, Unless something changed recently, the turbo system is really nothing like the LCF other than having two. Have you guys have seen something different in the last month os two??... I was pretty impressed with the ones I saw, as far as the turbo goes...

Guys, Have you never seen the Low Idle Stability test? It has been arround since early 7.3L PS. You unplug the ICP and check to see if your idle quality changes. This puts it into a default mode to check if the sensor is causing the issue or if it is really pressure related.

Keith, To answer your question as to what folks have against it. Safty..... This is the only way I would do it personally. However, Ford could never recommend a tech to do something potentially unsafe because your lift may not fit the requirements to keep it from falling on your head without the use of bubble gum and rubber bands(ratchet straps) holding it on. Glad it worked out for you, it can definitly make life easier.

22-24max. We have seen piston melt down with 29psi. I'm not saying it wont run great with more, just that it wont last long. As for the EBP issue. Yes, with extended idle times you will see carbon issues. Quicker because there is EGR on the 6.0L. You will notice it WAY before it cloggs like the 7.3L though. It is the main feedback for VGT and EGR opperation, if it gets screwy, you will notice perfromance concerns.

I would use the WDS for fuel pressure,The guage bar is nice when you need it but it can be cumbersome and accuracy can be questionable for some tests. It is a good idea for the CC Pressure test though.