LARRY BRUDZYNSKI Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 Just seen this today.... Glycerin Based Coolant...See further post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrunoWilimek Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 What's it say? I don't have an account there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LARRY BRUDZYNSKI Posted March 26, 2009 Author Share Posted March 26, 2009 Sorry, Topic Number Revision Level Planned Mailpack Date Group Number 09T0-88 MAY 2009 00 Expiration Date (U.S. and Canada) Expiration Date (International) Design Application Market Application Automotive All Industrial All Generator Unit All Marine Propulsion Marine CPL Engine Serial Number Range Service/Parts Topics Glycerin Coolant Introduction Publications Affected by This Service/Parts Topic Engine Operation and Maintenance Troubleshooting and Repair Shop Other All Cummins® Engines All All Base Engine Manuals All Service Manuals NOTE: Publications identified as Other include the following: 1Master Repair Manual, 2Parts Catalog, 3Specifications Manual, 4Alternative Repair Manual, 5Wiring Diagram, 6Features Manual, and 7Service Manual. Warranty Impact None The information in this document has no effect on current warranty coverages or repair practices, nor does it authorize TRP or Campaign actions. This Service/Parts Topic introduces the availability of glycerin coolant for Cummins® engines. Glycerin has been determined to be an acceptable base for antifreeze/coolant, and is now available from Cummins Filtration™. The product is identified as ES Compleat™ Glycerin Premix. The following table lists the Cummins Filtration™ part numbers for this product. Part Number Part Description Container Volume CC36004 ES Compleat™ Glycerin Premix BULK N/A CC36003 ES Compleat™ Glycerin Premix TOTE 1040 liter [275 gal] CC36002 ES Compleat™ Glycerin Premix DRUM 208 liter [55 gal] CC36001 ES Compleat™ Glycerin Premix PAIL 19 liter [5 gal] CC36000 ES Compleat™ Glycerin Premix GALLON 3.785 liter [1 gal] Glycerin is a by-product of biodiesel production. Cummins Inc. started evaluating it as an antifreeze base several years ago and has recently determined it to be an acceptable base for antifreeze/coolants used in Cummins® engines. Reference SAE paper 2007-01-4000 (An Evaluation of Glycerin (Glycerol) as a Heavy Duty Engine Antifreeze/Coolant Base) for more information on the subject. The most recent version of Application Engineering Bulletin (AEB) 99.01, titled Engine Coolant Performance Specifications, allows the use of glycerin as an antifreeze/coolant base. It must be stressed that additive packages used with glycol based products, that meet AEB 99.01, can not be assumed to meet this standard when used with glycerin based products. See AEB 99.01 for more information. Similar to propylene glycol, glycerin is non-toxic and is also used in many food, medical, and cosmetic products. It is important to read and understand the following points when deciding to use or switch to glycerin based coolants: Glycerin based coolants must meet the most recent requirements of AEB 99.01. Due to its high viscosity at low temperatures, when mixed with water at the required ratios, glycerin based coolants are not recommended for use in arctic climates. Refer to Cummins® Coolant Requirements and Maintenance, Bulletin 3666132 for details concerning what constitutes arctic conditions. No cooling system hardware or control changes are required when converting from glycol based coolants to glycerin based coolants. It is recommended to completely drain any glycol based coolant from the system before converting to glycerin based coolant. Glycerin based coolants are mixed with water at the same ratio (generally a 50/50 mixture) as glycol based coolants. Test strips and refractometers presently used for evaluation of the conditions of glycol based coolants in service are not usable for glycerin based coolants. For evaluation of additive levels (nitrite and molybdate) for glycerin based coolant, use Cummins Filtration™ 2-way test strips, CC36050 (bottle of 50) or CC36050B (Single Foil). For evaluation of freeze point and glycerin concentration, use a Brix scale refractometer with an extended range, similar to Cummins Filtration™, Part Number CC36049. Use the following charts to convert the Brix reading to freeze points and glycerin concentrations. Glycerin Coolant Brix Reading vs Freeze Point Glycerin Coolant Brix Reading vs Percent Glycerin by Volume Since there are presently no devices suitable for field use to measure and evaluate the condition of glycerin and glycol mixes, the use of glycerin coolants must be restricted to users who can completely control the coolant use in their equipment. It is important to note, that mixing glycerin and glycol based antifreeze/coolants does NOT cause any incompatibility problems, but makes it very difficult to assess the freeze point and additive levels of the mixture. If mixing of glycol and glycerin based coolants can not be avoided, coolant samples must be evaluated to determine freeze point and additive levels, using a commercial lab, that is able to measure these mixed coolants. Polaris Laboratories, LLC is set up to evaluate these mixtures. They can be contacted at www.polarislabs.com. Look for Fleetguard® Monitor C, CC2700 or CC2717 coolant analysis. Last Modified: 06-Mar-2009 Feedback / Help Copyright © 2000-2009 Cummins Inc. All rights reserved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 This is kinda cool but this inability to test freeze point has negative potential for obvious reasons. Glycerin is also used in gages and is used as a base for... soap! Thanks for the link Larry, I'll add it to the Diesel Mentor directory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregH Posted March 28, 2009 Share Posted March 28, 2009 So... If you're using a glycerin based coolant, and you have an oil cooler failure, what do you use to clean up the mess? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted March 29, 2009 Share Posted March 29, 2009 I have to wonder, now.... I've been trying to find out more on the new "dark green coolant" that ships on the 09 Edge and some others... I 'think' the Motorcraft number is VC-10 but it is, as yet, unavailable... Instead, if you order it, you will get some new Mazda coolant... It comes premixed and is incompatible with other coolants...... Hmmmm...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LARRY BRUDZYNSKI Posted March 29, 2009 Author Share Posted March 29, 2009 But this is the thing that I have looked at for a while....Glycol and Glycerin are compatable....But still need the DCA for the protection of the cavitation that will occur. I haven't seen the results or need for the additive named in the TSB from Cummins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Clayton Posted March 29, 2009 Share Posted March 29, 2009 Why even bother with it when the regular stuff has worked for a hundred years? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damon Posted March 29, 2009 Share Posted March 29, 2009 I haven't seen many 100 year old engines without cooling system issues. You're not trying to say that the old EG coolant is without problems OR that it was used in automotive engines 100 years ago, right? 100 years ago, they said glycerine was no good either so it appears there's some common ground. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrunoWilimek Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 I have to wonder, now.... I've been trying to find out more on the new "dark green coolant" that ships on the 09 Edge and some others... I 'think' the Motorcraft number is VC-10 but it is, as yet, unavailable... Instead, if you order it, you will get some new Mazda coolant... It comes premixed and is incompatible with other coolants...... Hmmmm...... I saw that too, Jim. I first noticed it on an Edge that I had in for a PDI and wondered why, if the coolant was so special, did they not put a warning label on the cap or overflow bottle stating as much, and oh, I don't know, THE COLOUR IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE, MAYBE!!!!! Same as the gold coolant, no-one who isn't in the know like us techs seems to put the right colour back in if they flush or add coolant. Why do they need 4 completely different and incompatible coolants in Fords anyhow? The aftermarket sells a long-life coolant that is supposed to be compatable with all systems. What would be wrong with using that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Amacker Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 I saw that too, Jim. I first noticed it on an Edge that I had in for a PDI and wondered why, if the coolant was so special, did they not put a warning label on the cap or overflow bottle stating as much, and oh, I don't know, THE COLOUR IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE, MAYBE!!!!! Duh. Brain fart from the top. Same as the gold coolant, no-one who isn't in the know like us techs seems to put the right colour back in if they flush or add coolant. Why do they need 4 completely different and incompatible coolants in Fords anyhow? It has to do with the different alloys of aluminum used. Each coolant is only compatible with some alloys, but not all alloys. The engineers specify many different alloys depending on the usage, temp range, stress, etc. of the part in question. If they can use a freaky new head alloy that lets them cut 10% from the weight of the casting, you bet they will, even if it requires a new coolant. The aftermarket sells a long-life coolant that is supposed to be compatible with all systems. What would be wrong with using that? The aftermarket companies that state their product is compatible with all engines are simply lying. No one in the aftermarket has the deep pockets or balls to sue these companies, which have large legal departments to fend off small peons such as you and me. Believe me, it isn't true. Those universal coolants are NOT compatible with every engine on the planet and nobody has challenged them in court on it (yet). You think you have it bad- the Euro car guys have it even worse..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrunoWilimek Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 I see the government here in Canada is planning to introduce legislation that will require a bittering agent in all coolants in the future to prevent accidental poisonings(pets as well as people). It will use a small amount of the same substance used in the stuff used to prevent people from biting their nails. I understand the new ultra geen coolant already uses a bittering agent in it. I was also wondering if the colour was used to help identify it as coolant rather than anything else. Gold coolant leaves a white residue when it evaporates, but looks just like water on the floor. Dex-cool type red/orange coolant could possibly be confused with tranny fluid or power steering fluid. Green can only be coolant.(or possibly Volvo type CVT fluid). Just a thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaysonfordtech Posted April 9, 2009 Share Posted April 9, 2009 We have been using coolant with bitter agent for quite a while here. VC7B I think is the common number. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LARRY BRUDZYNSKI Posted April 10, 2009 Author Share Posted April 10, 2009 Once upon a time we had a coolant that was supposed to be good for the enviroment and the animals... It had the Bittering agent in it and was a quick ad campaign. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think it was called "Sierra"... It was supposed to be good for everything but didn't last... I wonder why??? Not the greatest formulation and couldn't compete with the big dog's??? That's my guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 Some states, areas, baileywicks, whatever.... are smart enough to lergislate bittering agents for glycol based products.... These are few in number... Several years ago, there was a big deal with - IIRC - some table wines. Glycol was used to sweeten these wines and people became ill because of it... This happens when we become cavalier about rules and regulations. In some respects, we ARE the keepers of the public trust... People expect us to act or reactin a manner that befits the rules and regulations that pertain to us.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 Doesn't the gold antifreeze have a bittering agent in it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 Doesn't the gold antifreeze have a bittering agent in it? Yes it does! I just had a glass of it on the rocks and it tasted nasty! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted April 11, 2009 Share Posted April 11, 2009 But did it get the job done? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmy57 Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 I'm not too sure about the coolants but every manufacturer's time guide I have ever worked under for damn sure has bittering agent in it! I go look up what they say is the time for a job and in most cases I immediately have a bitter taste in my mouth. Some of the labor op times have suppositories in them, I see those times and my anus feels like something just got stuffed in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 ROFL! Well put. I usually find out if it has bittering agent or not when after draining the block and radiator, then removing the lower rad hose, that "extra gallon" of coolant that nobody can ever seem to drain out appears and soaks me from head to toe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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