Standards and Practices

[Jeff_E]

Well guys, I’m looking for your input on how you generally go about repairing an increasingly more common issue. More specifically – how much to repair…

 

I had a 6.0 truck come in a while ago running like crap due to a failed injector that allowed cylinder pressure in the fuel system. I did the bubble test, and even removed the lines at the filter housing one at a time to isolate which bank it was coming from. There were a ton of bubbles from the right bank, and absolutely none from the left bank. This vehicle was out of warranty, and I recommended replacing all 4 right bank injectors. The repair was approved, and I replaced all 4 injectors, as well as filters and a regulator to return fuel pressure to spec. After the repair, I re ran the bubble test and fuel pressure which passed with the fancy Rotunda 6.0 fuel pressure tester. Customer took the vehicle and everything was good, or so it seemed.

 

A week later, the vehicle came back missing on 2 LEFT bank cylinders from damaged injectors. Fuel pressure under load and bubble tests passed. Obviously those injectors were also damaged from the prior fuel aeration condition, but they didn’t present themselves as problematic at the time of the repair.

 

My questions to you:

 

Should I change my practice on customer pay repairs of replacing injectors only on the bank that failed the balloon test, and start recommending the replacement of ALL injectors whenever that happens? Or is this an odd ball situation that you guys haven’t ever run in to?

 

I don’t want to under-repair or over-repair these things, especially when they are customer pay. This experience has introduced me to an entire new "gray area" for which your thoughts would be appreciated.

[mchan68]

I hear you loud and clear. The answer is simple. Leave decision up to the customer. It is CUSTOMER PAY after all. I guess the best way to approach this, is to quote the repair as you did and got approved initially. The only thing to do differntly, is to also quote all eight for replacement and make sure the advisor explains this to him clearly, the pros and cons of doing it the expensive way and the cheap way.

 

I had one a couple months back, that "his mechanic" said it needed all eight injectors. Given that this particular truck was out of warranty, I found it odd that he chose to bring it to me when "his mechanic" DIAGNOSED it as needing all eight injectors. As it turned out, it was the FICM (big surprise?). Even after I got the "go ahead", this customer still didn't believe that the FICM was the culprit failed part..........some people you just can't make happy no matter how hard you try .

[Aaron]

I would quote him to replace the other four...It's not any extra labor to do the other two while you're in there, just the labor on the parts.

 

How much, out of curiosity are your (United States dealers) 6.0 Retail injector prices? Our injectors I believe list around $430 or so.

[Mikill]

I priced out an injector today at my new dealer that was $393 and some change.

 

I recently had one at my old dealer where I replaced all 4 injectors on the drivers side for the same concern under customer pay. I recently talked to a tech over there and he told me it came back missing badly on the other bank. Same concern of fuel aeration. That would of been a first for me as well.

[LARRY BRUDZYNSKI]

Not supposed to post it here, because I promised I wouldn't promote it but mid 250's per on brand new Alliants or better on our in house injectors. Sorry Keith. Just want to help the end user when possible......Guy's here get better pricing.....

 

 

Jeff, Do you have a fuel shop that can test your injectors? I would recommend it. If not we could run them and get you exact readings as to whats going on with them.

[DwayneGorniak]

We have been running into this problem very frequently lately. If I have only one bank that is affected, I quote for all four on that bank as a recommendation. If it's both banks, then I'll quote for all eight as a recommendation. However, I leave the end decision up to the customer as Mike said being that it is their money. The odd customer has opted not to if they don't have allot of money and just can't afford it. But generally most of my customers who can afford it do not want to go back into that affected bank with the risk of more diag and labour costs involved. The customers that replace only the causal injectors always wind up back paying for more.

 

 

It's a shitty situation for the customer, but I find that if you're just honest with them, they usually always appreciate to honesty and the fact that you are trying to save them money in the end even if they don't have the money at that point in time.

 

So in the end my advise is to not to look at it as a quote. Just be honest and quote based on recommendations to prevent major future costs. Come to think of it I just may change the way I quote from now on by writing "recommend" on the side of my injector estimate. I have never done this yet because of the fact that I usually wind up talking to my customers and explaining why I quoted the way I did or Kenny (Service Manager) does it. At least if I have recommend written there, the advisors will pick up on it and know what I'm talking about.

[mchan68]

So in the end my advise is to not to look at it as a quote. Just be honest and quote based on recommendations to prevent major future costs. Come to think of it I just may change the way I quote from now on by writing "recommend" on the side of my injector estimate. I have never done this yet because of the fact that I usually wind up talking to my customers and explaining why I quoted the way I did or Kenny (Service Manager) does it. At least if I have recommend written there, the advisors will pick up on it and know what I'm talking about.

But, you are probably fortunate enough to have advisors who are technical saavy enough to explain this to the customers without needing you to elaborate. In my neck of the woods, I end up being the lucky bastard having to explain things to the customer myself to justify my quote for the repair, and sometimes even then it's not enough. Add a language barrier to the equation and things just get that much harder (a lot of Portuguese truck owners).

[Jim Warman]

We will come to the point.... well, I think we already have.... where we will quote a repair that is worth well over the worth of the truck in question.

 

Can we justify the quote?

 

I don't know because I'm not there.

 

I see a lot of stuff get replaced in a CYA stance (I want to replace the EGR cooler but I can't MAKE it leak).

 

Where do we draw the line? Where do we accept that a customer has finite or limited funds and we now need to address his needs?

 

It is true that the more parts we replace, the safer we get - we still need to realize that, without adequate justification, we will simply price ourselves out of the marketplace.

 

We have the opportunity to think about things with familiarity - to apply logic to prioritizing repairs.. to gaining acceptance from retail customers.

 

I see some of you guys doing things to your own vehicles in the name of "repair" - but you wont do them to your customers vehicles. Spare me the crap because you send your wife and kids out on the streets in that thing.

 

If you want a customer for life... treat his car like it's your own....

 

But I'm old.. what the fuck do I know?

[DwayneGorniak]

I can tell you that if I owned a Sick-0, I myself sure as hell wouldn't send my wife with my kids on a cross country trip in the damned thing if I only patched it with a bandaid warranty fix. I can truly feel confident in my ethics because I already practice these ethics with my own vehicles. But then again, I am a fussy sum bitch. If my trucks need any little thing, they damned well get it because I cannot afford for them to break down on the road away from home.

 

And we don't decide if the customer has the proper funds. That is up to the customer to decide and for us to help him out the best we can. Again, you can only make recommendations and let the customers decide what is best for them. If you don't make the recommendations you almost always wind up the situation where the customer is back for a repair and tearing your service departments heads off because it should have been fixed right the first time. I can't count how many times I have seen this over the years, especially when it comes to the Sick-0.