GregH Posted June 9, 2010 Share Posted June 9, 2010 So I've got our first sold unit in here for the second time in it's short life... First time was at 500 miles, and the owner stated that the oil pressure warning message appeared while driving. Check it out, unable to duplicate concern. Verify that the oil pressure pid changes from "not low" to "low" within 5 seconds of key off. Nope - takes more like 20 seconds most of the time. Drop in another oil pressure switch, retest, and now it takes less than 5 seconds to read low pressure. Ship the unit. Now, 1000 miles later, the owner comes back in and says that the check engine lamp is on, and the oil pressure warning has come on again while driving. Go to the code - P132B. Follow pinpoint test KA, leads to turbo replacement. Check OASIS, nothing, so I order parts. Manager asks me to submit a hotline contact, and they have a few other tests for me to run - W10 and W11 for EGR valve position, and do the turbo wastegate adjustment. Both of these procedures come back ok. Hotline requests a tech assist. So the engineer comes out yesterday, we rerun the pinpoint test, and still come to the same conclusion - needs a turbo. But I'm not really feeling it - the owner never said anything about a loss of power... The exact step that is failing is KA16, which has us close the EGR valve, set EGRTP to 5%, close the wastegate, command 1500RPM, and cycle the VGT. At 0% VGT, the MAP should be within 5% of BARO, and at 100% VGT, the MAP should increase by at least 10psi. Ours only increased 7psi, so it failed. Before committing to installing a turbo, we decide to check a brand new truck. Sure enough, KA16 returns 7psi increase on another truck... Uh oh... Anyway, there is speculation that the oil pressure problem may not be sensor or harness related, but an actual loss of oil pressure. That would prevent the VGT from actuating properly during the intrusive test at engine start and setting the P132B. By the way, if you get a chance, check out the workshop procedure for replacing the turbo. Specifically the portion on removing the upper downpipe assembly. It's not written yet, and looking at the truck it seems that access to the cinch bolt part way down the downpipe is rather limited... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted June 10, 2010 Share Posted June 10, 2010 I'm thinkin R&R 7000 assembly is gonna be required... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mchan68 Posted September 1, 2010 Share Posted September 1, 2010 Well guys, I got my first 6.7L driveability issue and it seems to pertain exactly to the same situation as Greg's, so rather than start a new thread I figured I'd refresh this one. Here's the the Hotline Contact details: Hotline Assistance Request VIN: 1FT8W3DT1BEA49088 Vehicle: 2011 F-SERIES RO Number: 112664 Contact ID: 104008300 Request Date: 08-31-2010 Technician: michael chan -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Request Form Details: Description of vehicle concern: "Check Engine" light on. Vehicle lacks power. Diagnostics performed: IDS test. KOEO indicates P132B set in continuous memory. Performed pinpoint test KA as per PC/ED. All tests within specs up to test step KA16. The results are as follows: BARO @ 14.35 psi. With VGTDC commanded to 100% MAP indicates 17.86 psi. With VGTDC commanded to 0% MAP indicates 15.04 psi. DTC Codes: P132B Parts replaced: NONE. Tech's question: Already checked MAP/BARO/EBP correlation at KOEO. Already verified wastegate actuator movement with a vacuum pump connected and between 8 to 10 in-Hg applied. During test step KA16, was unable to control active command on EGRTP_CMD PID below 9.80%. I understand this test instructs it to be set to 5%. How much of an effect would this have on the test results? As per data listed above, MAP does NOT increase to greater than 6.96 psi with VGTDC commanded to 100%. Based on the results listed, turbocharger replacement is listed as the next step. Would like further clarification of this. Hotline response: Michael, If you are unable to command the EGRTP to 5% during PC/ED pinpoint test KA16 there should only be a very minimal difference in MAP pressure if the EGRTP is commanded from 0-10% and this should not cause the MAP to only increase about 3psi. If the wastegate has been adjusted properly, there are no intake or exhaust system leaks, the sensors are not biased, and the turbocharger VGT actuator is operating properly (KA13) please proceed with turbocharger replacement as directed by pinpoint test KA. If any other driveability concerns or DTCs are present they should be repaired before retesting for normal air management systems operation. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Additional Diag/Comments Comment from: technician Comment Date: 8/31/2010 4:36:43 PM Okay. I was able to repeat this test on a stock unit (F-250 pickup). The numbers I pulled from the stock unit repeating pinpoint test step KA16 are as follows: with VGTDC @ 0% MAP indicates 14.87 psi. With VGTDC @ 100 % MAP indicates 21.76 psi. With this in mind, I repeated the test on the vehicle in this contact. The new numbers are as follows: with VGTDC @ 0% MAP indicates 14.73 psi and with VGTDC @ 100% MAP indicates 21.61 psi, well within the minimum spec of 6.96 psi change spec. It should be noted that on both vehicles, I could only active command EGRTP to as low as 9.8%. Also noteworthy, is on both vehicles when running this test, vehicles went into "reduced power" modes if that matters. What would be the next advisable step? Again, the ONLY DTC retrieved was P132B in memory. Comment from: Hotline Comment Date: 8/31/2010 4:49:22 PM Michael, You are likely still dealing with a turbo concern since you confirmed that there was not enough pressure change during the first test. We are essentially sweeping the turbo up and down and watching for a MAP change to confirm that it is moving. If KA16 failed the first time it will be necessary to proceed with turbo replacement. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Additional comments or diagnostic info You have 950 characters remaining for your response... Print date: 8/31/2010 4:59:18 PM It looks like Hotline wants me to put a turbo in this one if I understood correctly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted September 1, 2010 Share Posted September 1, 2010 Yep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LARRY BRUDZYNSKI Posted September 1, 2010 Share Posted September 1, 2010 Why or what would a low oil pressure condition warrant a Turbo change? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mchan68 Posted September 1, 2010 Share Posted September 1, 2010 Okay. After reading through the test steps and the results, and thinking about it a little, this kind of leaves me wondering if servicing the VGT/unison ring assemblies is going to be something we're going to be looking forward to in the future, just like the 6.0L engines. Because when you think about it, pinpoint test step KA16 instructs you to take active command of the VGT end of the turbo and look for an acceptable change in MAP pressure, which is essentially the way we diagnose 6.0L turbo operation with the added effect that we have to command the wastegate to 0% as well as EGR and EGR TP. And based on the fact that the first test yielded an unacceptable change in MAP pressure while the second one passed, leads me to believe the VGT was hanging up during the first test. So, I guess replacing the turbo would be the result of not having a separately serviceable unison ring like we do now on the 6.0L. Would everyone agree with me? However, that turbo on this sucker looks HORRIBLE to access, re & re, unlike a 6.0L. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LARRY BRUDZYNSKI Posted September 1, 2010 Share Posted September 1, 2010 But what does it have to do with oil pressure? Or is this a coincidence? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted September 1, 2010 Share Posted September 1, 2010 Oil pressure runs the VGT...so maybe it doesn't have enough oil pressure to move the actuator properly. I really liked that mechanical gizmo on the 6.4 for moving the VGT. I wonder if there is going to be an updated oil pressure regulator for the 6.7 coming down the road, or at least a calibration change to account for the low startup oil rpessure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cetane Posted September 2, 2010 Share Posted September 2, 2010 Are you saying that you tested the truck once and it failed, then you tested the same truck again and it passed without problem? If so, and you hang a new turbo on it, how do you know it's fixed? I suspect there is more going on here than they have you monitoring. Are there standard conditions before the test will run(i.e. coolant, exhaust, inlet temps)? Can you monitor injection quantity? I havent actually tried to run this test but the procedure as you described it seems a little too simplistic to replace a high ticket item like a turbo. While it may not fix your problem, the updated cal is more robust to P132B so you guys shouldnt see this code near as often. And yes, the oil pressure warning should be taken care of too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STROKER_T Posted September 20, 2010 Share Posted September 20, 2010 Well...whadayaknow,got one in here with 3735miles with same code and oil pressure warning,guy says oil warning was only on for a few seconds,but CEL stayed on for a day...p132b recieved,freeze frame data shows the engine was warm (EOT @ 190). He was waiting,so i cleared the code and performed power increase calibration,told him we may be putting a turbo on it,but had to do more research and talk with FORD....pid monitor test reads identical to Greg's, only 7psi increase on MAP...uh oh is right I see turbo's on a national backorder in the very near future.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STROKER_T Posted September 21, 2010 Share Posted September 21, 2010 ok,just got off the phone with Ford (they called me,that rarely happens)...guy says the increase spec for MAP increase on PPT KA16 is 6.96 psi,that it used to be 10psi spec,but has been updated and that the flash update should fix the P132b concern...good to know,i almost ordered a turbo for that puppy ...they had already told me yesterday via lukewarm line to replace the turbo,i was just waiting for the customer to tell me the problem reoccured...as for the low oil pressure warning they got a tsb that says it may take 20 seconds(or somethin like that)... pretty much what Cetane said,i suppose... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted September 21, 2010 Share Posted September 21, 2010 ok,just got off the phone with Ford (they called me,that rarely happens)...guy says the increase spec for MAP increase on PPT KA16 is 6.96 psi,that it used to be 10psi spec,but has been updated and that the flash update should fix the P132b concern...good to know,i almost ordered a turbo for that puppy ...they had already told me yesterday via lukewarm line to replace the turbo,i was just waiting for the customer to tell me the problem reoccured...as for the low oil pressure warning they got a tsb that says it may take 20 seconds(or somethin like that)... pretty much what Cetane said,i suppose... Are you saying the engine calibration was changed for this, the pinpoint test specifications have been revised or both? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STROKER_T Posted September 23, 2010 Share Posted September 23, 2010 I'm gonna say both,Kieth...apparently Ford has had a bunch of inquiries on this P132b thing,he said the updated calibration (power increase) should eliminate the P132b,a false code perhaps,and the spec for MAP increase USED to be 10psi,they lowered it to 6.96 due to the failed KA16....I'm still learning on the 6.7's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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