AintQik Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 First off, I'm not a Ford Tech so be kind I'm in the military and with the many International diesels we have I figures this forum would be a great asset in conquering some of my problem children. On to a problem child. 74,000 mile truck. One of the rare occasions where I was actually in a vehicle when it died. It was damp, pissing rain actually, and I fired the truck up. It ran for about 20 seconds. I gave it a slight throttle, maybe 1400 rpms and it died and has never started again. Didn't want to jump to conclusions so we began troubleshooting. WTS light is working. Fuses/relays are good. No codes, well I lie there was an IAT code but I saw the connector fell off. Put it back and no codes. Using a Snap-On Solus. Checked GPR and it was good. Ohmed out harness and it was good on one bank and moved on. I didn't really think it was an issue due to the way it died so I skipped. I know, I know Im just being honest. Oil resevour full and stays full. Tach moving. Scan while cranking indicates an ICP that slowly climbs to a max of 124 kPa. If my math is right thats like 17 psi. That aint gonna work. Fuel pressure was building up at the schrader to around 20 psi but that may be another issue. It was less than 1 ms when cranking. .42 ms to be exact. I think it should be between 1 and 6? Pulled the ICP connector and it jumped to 16600 kPa, still no start. IPR was loose when I tapped on it I could turn the jam nut a good turn. Tightened and no change in any reading or behavior. No smoke out of tail pipe when cranking. Injector buzz test sounded good with number 7 being slightly louder than the rest. I pretty much ruled out the IDM (which I was sure it was due to the moisture) Passed on the scanner but you know how that goes. I hate throwing parts at it but I don't have the proper tools to deadhead the HPOP and check. Having said that, I am leaning on trying to fab up a test kit or just ordering a IPR and having at it. Any thoughts, a good way to test the IPR? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Amacker Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 Plug the ICP back in and look at ICPV only, not pressure. It should be .17-.24 KOEO and climb to about 1.5v cranking. Look at RPM cranking and make sure it's reading 150+. If these things crank at 135 they will give trouble or not start. Check your glow plug amperage with an amp clamp, it should be 190ish KOEO initially, tapering off to 120 after 30 seconds. A bad CMP will cause your complaint, very high failure rate item. A DT466/530 CMP will fit well enough to try if you have one handy... Good Luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AintQik Posted May 24, 2011 Author Share Posted May 24, 2011 Bruce, Thanks a ton! The ICP read .24V KOEO and I am pretty sure it climbed. At that point I was focused on the KpA. I was concerned with the cranking RPM but for some silly reason I could not find it on the Solus. For giggles I did have a good CMP and swapped it even though I was seeing signal on the tach. No change. I will double check the ICPv, crank RPM and stick an AMP clamp on the GP circuit and let you know. Glow plugs Ohmed and checked good for voltage, which I know is different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 From my experience, stalling and low ICP in a 7.3L has been caused by a lot of faulty IPR valves or the o-rings at the tip. It amazes me to this day that our military does not equip you guys with some adequate diagnostic equipment. This is one reason I welcome military techs here at the DTS. We have had several guys stationed in the middle east join us and they are in a dangerous part of the World. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AintQik Posted May 24, 2011 Author Share Posted May 24, 2011 I do spend quite a bit of time over in the sand box. Lots of interesting problems associated with the environment. I appreciate the help and will let you know what I find. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AintQik Posted May 24, 2011 Author Share Posted May 24, 2011 I see the ICP climbing to 1.24V. Does that rule out the IPR? I hear that somebody was switching between fuel tanks before I got in. Could I have something as simple as air? The low or odd schrader valve reading might confirm this. I thought cranking alone would bleed it out. Lord knows I've done plenty of that. Folks want to shoot a little ether in the inlet while cranking but I'm not real fond of that idea on this engine. Checked fuel bowl and it was almost full and there was no sign of debris. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Amacker Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 Yes,I wouldn't worry about ICP even at that low voltage as it's enough to light it up. Start looking harder at basic stuff like fuel quality and pressure, there's a twisty valve on the FF to drain a sample into a bottle for a lookee. The tube runs down the RF of the engine, usually near the bat cable, WP or rt motor mount. You might want to pull a valve cover and watch the oil spitters while it's cranking to see if the injectors are enabled. If you had a scope you could watch the trigger, too. I've seen 8 bad injectors cause a no start several times, although I wouldn't put it at the top of your list. Good Luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Clayton Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 Quote: Could I have something as simple as air I have seen the occasional 7.3 get air bound. An easy way to test is to pull the fuel plug out of the front of the right head shown here in one of Bruce's photos. If it's air bound you will get a nice hissing sound like removing a radiator cap, followed by lots of bubbles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Clayton Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 Scratch that idea, forgot you were working on a 97 and not a returnless system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AintQik Posted May 26, 2011 Author Share Posted May 26, 2011 Had a chance to mess with it again today. cranking RPM was 175 Voltage was 10.6 IPR was at 55% duty cycle ICP was .24 and moved to .26 never rose higher Oil in resevour was full and stayed full, I checked again toda Since I can't deadhead the pump I think the next logical step is to put an IPR in it. I have a hard time believing I would go from a great running truck to no oil pressure in a heartbeat due to a bad o ring in one of the injectors. I'm also still registering lower lube pressure. What do you guys think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blown99 Posted May 26, 2011 Share Posted May 26, 2011 If the ICP is .24-.26 v when cranking then you do not have enough ICP when cranking. The ICP should climb to 1.5 v when cranking. Check for B+ at the pin on the IPR valve. If you have good B+, then ground the ground circuit and crank. In theory, this will make the pump put out max pressure. I have also temporarily freed up many IPR's by full fielding them. Monitor the ICP when cranking and see if it climbs past the .26 v Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshbuys Posted May 26, 2011 Share Posted May 26, 2011 I have seen many an IPR that fails due the jostling around from someone not having properly tightened the nut on the back side - as you mentioned yours was loose, I would be highly suspect of that IPR! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AintQik Posted May 28, 2011 Author Share Posted May 28, 2011 I took the IPR solenioid off and the shaft was soaked in oil. In the valley I found remnants of at least 2 other IPR changes. I guess this thing likes to eat them. So, keep your fingers crossed for me. I saw evidence of a fuel leak in the valley. I don't like fuel leaks so I took everything apart. Hoses dry rotted. Screen in fuel pressure regulator packed with rust. Bottom of fuel bowl had lots of sediment from what appears to be yet another delamination issue. I'm going to order 2 tanks from an after market place. Good news is it looks like the filter was doing its job. Also need to get the fuel pressure regulator rebuild kit. If you guys have the Ford part handy I'll take it. I will also search the site, I'm sure it has been posted. Any links to the schematic for the regulator. I may have inadvertantly dropped a check ball. Are there one or two of them? I have the one that goes behind the screen, but I thought I saw something fall off the bench when I took the clean side apart. Is there a check ball under the snap ring assembly? Thats guys I will let you know how it goes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Amacker Posted May 29, 2011 Share Posted May 29, 2011 I don't know of any "rebuild kits" for the '97 regulator, but these pics should help: There's only one check ball. Good Luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AintQik Posted June 2, 2011 Author Share Posted June 2, 2011 IPR for the win. Got the part, installed and fired right up. Running like a champ. Thanks for all the help. Hope to be able to contribute. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 Hope to be able to contribute. You already are Sir! Thank you for serving our great country and protecting people like me. I am glad you got it fixed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshbuys Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 Originally Posted By: AintQik Hope to be able to contribute. You already are Sir! Thank you for serving our great country and protecting people like me. I am glad you got it fixed. +1!! Thank you for your service to our country!! We are always praying for the safety of our military!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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