Keith Browning Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 Quote: Certain 2003-2004 Model Year F-250/350/450/550 and Excursion Vehicles Equipped with 6.0L Diesel Engines Control Module Recalibration The calibration used to update this population of 6.0L diesel vehicles contains a revised strategy that will deactivate the EP sensor and replace its function with inputs from other sensors. Exhaust pressure is now inferred, and even though the EP sensor remains in place, it is not used as an input. Therefore, for vehicles covered by this recall, it is not necessary to replace the EP sensor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted March 3, 2006 Author Share Posted March 3, 2006 One word of caution though. In speaking with the HotLine I have become aware that performing this recall on trucks with "mods" can create driveability issues. Trucks with monster turbo-back exhaust systems and especially non-OEM intakes may develop problems because of the changed airflow characteristics through the engine affecting the MAF sensor. My guess is that many, not all but many of the guys running intake and exhaust mods are running some kind of a tuner and probably don't care about the recall anyway. This is okay with me because I would rather not deal with those hard heads anyway. Mod your truck all you want, I understand! Just don't complain to me or shake your fist at Ford when you have problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Amacker Posted March 4, 2006 Share Posted March 4, 2006 Trucks with monster turbo-back exhaust systems and especially non-OEM intakes may develop problems because of the changed airflow characteristics through the engine affecting the MAF sensor. Hmmm. I was under the impression that in strategy the MAF was only present for verifying EGR flow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted March 4, 2006 Share Posted March 4, 2006 Just back from another auto tranny school. The MAF figures big time in the new strategy (are we going to install MAFs on all those late 05s?) according to our instructor. Since this new strategy will, effectively, dissble EBP sensing... the PCM needs to know how much air is getting into the motor.. what a leak in the CAC system is going to give for symptoms is anyones guess.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted March 4, 2006 Author Share Posted March 4, 2006 the PCM needs to know how much air is getting into the motor.. what a leak in the CAC system is going to give for symptoms is anyones guess.... That is some pretty forward thinking /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/thumbup.gif Perhaps a look at the new diagnostic codes and pinpoint tests will provide a little incite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PWRStrokeMaster Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 ANY modafications to the intake will give drivability issues as well as a leak in the intake tube, plugged air filter or a dirty MAF sensor. big downpipe back exhausts are also going to affect drivability. On top of that, the MAF sensor is much more sensitive than the ebp ever was and the MAF is now in control of the turbo operation, egr operation and inferring the ebp reading. After the reflash is performed, the pcm needs to go through a relearn or the truck will not run right either. the info is in ssm 19109 and needs to be followed to the T. even after all this is done, if there is an intermittently sticking turbo or any of the above issues, there will be problems. Always seem to find this stuff out the hard way but not much can be done now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted March 22, 2006 Author Share Posted March 22, 2006 You mean this? The recall states these instructions are in attachment 2 of the recall. I did not find this. Somebody check this and make sure that I am not blind! If it's missing then a lot of techs aren't doing it! Quote: AFTER REPROGRAMMING A 2003-2004 F-SUPER DUTY OR EXCURSION 6.0L BUILT BEFORE 9/29/03 WITH WDS RELEASE B41.8 AND HIGHER OR B42.1 AND HIGHER, DRIVEABILITY SYMPTOMS MAY OCCUR IMMEDIATELY FOLLOWING THE REPROGRAMMING IF PROPER STEPS ARE NOT FOLLOWED TO COMPLETE ADAPTIVE TURBOCHARGER LEARNING. SYMPTOMS COULD INCLUDE LACK OF POWER, SURGE, OR DTC P132B. IF THESE SYMPTOMS OCCUR, ENSURE THE FOLLOWING 3 STEPS WERE PERFORMED PER THE ARTICLE DIRECTING REPROGRAMMING: 1)USING A SCAN TOOL, RECORD AND CLEAR CONTINUOUS MEMORY DTC'S. IT IS IMPORTANT TO PERFORM THE CLEAR DTC COMMAND EVEN IF NO DTC'S ARE PRESENT. 2)PERFORM TWO KEY ON/KEY OFF CYCLES. 3)ENSURE VEHICLE IDLES AT NORMAL OPERATING TEMP (ABOVE 160F) FOR 5 MINUTES MINIMUM. IF DTC OR DRIVEABILITY ISSUES ARE STILL PRESENT AFTER FOLLOWING THESE STEPS, FOLLOW THE UPDATED ONLINE PC/ED DIAGNOSTICS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffEzack Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 I first seen these new steps to perform from a broadcast message on Inford. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted March 24, 2006 Author Share Posted March 24, 2006 I first saw them here in PWRStrokeMaster's post with the SSM#. Like I said, it's supposed to be in the recall but it's not the same. It says to road test the vehicle THEN let it idle for 5 minutes. From what I am reading, we are supposed to cycle the key twice and idle the truck for 5 minutes at operating temp - before driving it. Would the real procedure please stand up? /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/shrug.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PWRStrokeMaster Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 This info is brand new and just got posted yesterday. The ssm 19109 also changed to 19141. From what I hear, the info in the actual FSA is vague at best and much more info is available. This is EXACTLY what needs to happen. After the recall is performed the vgt has to go through a learn mode. The vgt cannot learn properly if the vehicle is not above 162 degress (temp for egr operation). It will also not learn correctly if there is ANY modifications to the vehicle or previous drivability concerns relating to the air management system. Your best bet is to get the vehicle up to about 200 deg, flash it and then cler the KAM. this step must be performed. just clearing the dtc's will not do it. Since the pcm must relearn everything it knows, the KAM must be cleared. Then the key must be cycled 2 times to complete the KAM clear. Start it and let it idle for at least 5 minuets, or more importantly the vgt cycles 5 times to complete the vgt learn. This is the point where the engine must be over 162. Now here is a little trick. If you have ver 42 or higher on your wds, there is 13, yes 13 new pids you can look at. Most of them are vgt pids and there are 132b pids as wlll as some new ebp pids. With these new pids you can actually watch the vgt learn and see if it did so. when the vehicle is idling and cycling the vgt pull up the VGTVP_LE and the VGT_OK pids. as the vgt cycles the LE pid will count. It starts at 2 and increases by 1 with each cycle. once it hits 6 the OK pid switches from NO to YES. This means that the vgt has learned properly and you can go on a test drive and check for any issues. If it does not switch to YES, pull up the EBP_INF_F pid. if this pid reads a 1 or YES, this means that there is an input not correct for the vgt to learn (EOT>162,MAP,MAF). If this is the case then further diag on those inputs is needed and most likely there will be a code. This recall is going to really try a lot of technicians patients out there and the recall never had the info in it that it needed. Hopefully this info will soon be on Power Stroke Central or in a tsb. For now, the only way to get it is to call the Hotline. Good luck, we all need it. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/mad.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/banghead.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smhair.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrotherD Posted April 3, 2006 Share Posted April 3, 2006 I'll have to try the KAM trick. So far i haven't had any problems doing the steps the SSM states. The truck has to be over 160 degrees. The one I did that was a cold engine surged bad until I retried everything at operating temp then seemed ok. You can hear the vgt cycling through as the exhaust changes pitch throughout the five minutes. And if you monitor the pids PWRStrokeMaster stated it does work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torqued_Up Posted April 3, 2006 Share Posted April 3, 2006 this step must be performed. just clearing the dtc's will not do it. Since the pcm must relearn everything it knows, the KAM must be cleared. Then the key must be cycled 2 times to complete the KAM clear. Start it and let it idle for at least 5 minuets, or more importantly the vgt cycles 5 times to complete the vgt learn. This is the point where the engine must be over 162. Here's a good question. Let's say someone replaces the batteries or is working on the truck with the batts diconnected. Is the KAM completely wiped out? If the unsuspecting guy working on the truck has no clue about this calibration and the VGT relearn procedure is the truck likely to have drivability problems like you mentioned? /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/shrug.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted April 3, 2006 Share Posted April 3, 2006 That's a question I've been asking too, Ed... AFAIK, VGT learn would have to be stored in KAM much like fuel trims and Torque Shift strategy. Imagine repairing something and giving back to the customer only to find out it runs worse now than it did before... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted April 3, 2006 Author Share Posted April 3, 2006 Today I actually pulled up the PIDs while watching the VGT Learn process. Not much to look at but interesting none the less. Since I like to pull up the EOT PID before starting I'll just add the VGT PIDS to the display. You can leave the monitor up while you reprogram the modules and clear the KAM. GREAT HEADS UP on this PWRStrokeMaster! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/rotz.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted April 6, 2006 Author Share Posted April 6, 2006 So I mentioned that Ford finally released the instructions for the VGT relearn in the recall on the PTS web site. Did anybody read it? The information we have gathered here was right on but the revised recall instructions mention an engine temperature of 130'F . Personally I like doing this at full operating temperature. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alvg88 Posted April 7, 2006 Share Posted April 7, 2006 ACCORDING TO THE HOT LINE YOU HAVE TO LOOK AT THE VGTLRN_OK PID AND MAKE SURE IT SAYS YES IF NOT RESET KAM 2 KOEO CYCLES (MAKE SURE GLOW PLUG LIGHT GOES OUT AS WELL BOTH TIMES) AND LET IT IDLE 5 MINS HAS TO BE OPERATING TEMP ALSO DID THS TO 2 SO FAR CUSTOMERS HAPPY NOW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted April 11, 2006 Author Share Posted April 11, 2006 I have done 2 '04's now that apparently did not get the 06e17 RECALL calibration. I like to monitor the PIDs during the relearn process and the new PIDs were not there but EBP was! And no, my WDS is up to date as I have done others that show the new PIDs. Strange. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HGM Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 I have done 2 '04's now that apparently did not get the 06e17 RECALL calibration. I like to monitor the PIDs during the relearn process and the new PIDs were not there but EBP was! And no, my WDS is up to date as I have done others that show the new PIDs. Strange. The recal was only for early build '04s, with the ICP in the back.. Could this be why? Just a thought... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted April 12, 2006 Author Share Posted April 12, 2006 Well, the truck I performed 06E17 on yesterday also has the ICP sensor replaced and it was in the rear on the pump like you said. (By the way, yet another ICP sensor coming apart and leaking oil - biased as well) Since the WDS determines what calibration goes with what update by looking at the data in the truck this might indicate a calibration may have been left off "the list?" /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/readthis.gif FINAL EDIT: I determined that the learn process would not complete a P132B code was being set. A look at the new PIDS showed P132B_VAR showed yes. PID definition: Excessive variance detected during learn process. If you follow the pinpoint tests KA for turbo operation this truck PASSED! In the end the VGT was malfunctioning so it got the boot. New turbo, warmed up the truck, the VGT learn completed in five minutes. End of story. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/mad.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alvg88 Posted April 18, 2006 Share Posted April 18, 2006 ok now getting some 03's back and seems they are looseing their stradegy vgtlrn_ok truck came back pid saying no found the truck to be overboosting now hot states to change turbo due to overboost condition possibly cuaseing vgt to forget positions we'll see ??? seems that this calibration is costing more for turbos 03's especially with the dreaded rear turbo bolt that is difficult most of the time to remove!!! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/hitthefan.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted April 19, 2006 Author Share Posted April 19, 2006 The following "uncontrolled" documents are published on the Power Stroke Central web site but for the sake of our own discussions I have a copy of them here on the DTS. I have found them VERY useful in understanding this recall and in diagnosing issues that have come up after performing the re-calibration. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/readthis.gif Please do not post links to these files on other web sites. I will know if they are and I will have to take them down. Inferred EBP Functional Overview Inferred EBP PID List Technician Q & A for pre-release HL1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted May 2, 2006 Author Share Posted May 2, 2006 This recall is going to really try a lot of technicians patients out there and the recall never had the info in it that it needed. Without a doubt! Anyone unaware of the calibration chane and the required steps is going to have a rough time. I finally had time to mess with this idea because I had one come in surging and lacking power. The customer had put batteries in the truck so I found a P0603 along with a P132b and a P0404. As it should, disconnecting the batts will clear the KAM and reset the VGTLRN_OK parameter. This might bring in some work next winter when customers start changing batteries. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gasgasman Posted May 3, 2006 Share Posted May 3, 2006 I had an Ambulance with a stuck VGT, no boost. Replaced the turbo and it would not relearn the VGT. So I had to put another turbo on the vehicle. Relearned it in 3 min. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted May 3, 2006 Share Posted May 3, 2006 I'm wondering if the WDS is reporting accurately... replaced turbo and Y pipe, reprogrammed... ran and ran and ran VGTLRN_LE didn't change and no VGTLRN_OK, Finally WDS crashed. (No surprise...) and by the time it rebooted, done deal... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted June 6, 2006 Author Share Posted June 6, 2006 I don't get to meet too many of my truck's owners but to day I met up with the operator of the last truck I did head gaskets on. He was in for a 4X4 concern and mentioned that the truck has never run as well as it did after the head gasket repairs. Feeling good about that and thinking all I did was replace the gaskets and then I remembered the recall 06E17 was also performed. So I guess that counts as positive feedback for the recall. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/cool.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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