Keith Browning Posted April 5, 2016 Share Posted April 5, 2016 I am offering a customer the option to reseal his injectors with deteriorated high pressure seals. Anyone do this for someone and what labor time did you quote. I am thinking of just quoting diagnosis, R&R injectors plus 1 hr to clean the injectors up and install new seals. This would be for Alliant Power #AP0002 seal kits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmorris Posted April 5, 2016 Share Posted April 5, 2016 I have never added any labor on top of R&I injectors. Even back to the 7.3L days the labor for injectors and injector seals has been the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted April 5, 2016 Author Share Posted April 5, 2016 I don't know why you would not charge extra to service the O-rings on injectors. For a 6.0L there is a labor op that pays 0.4 hrs to replace all of the O-rings. In this case, the high pressure seals can be tedious and add to the 0.4 Just sayin. Don't short yourself... unless you are already clubbing the customer on the R&I. The alternative is whack the guy $2200 to replace the injectors that he otherwise does not need. I am giving the customer the choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Amacker Posted April 5, 2016 Share Posted April 5, 2016 I'm on board with Keith, and 1 hr even seems on the light side. Don't short yourself, you need to keep in mind the ops you lose your ass on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mchan68 Posted April 5, 2016 Share Posted April 5, 2016 If you are talking about the o-rings on the tops of the injectors along with the ferrule that's in the kit that you can't get from Ford, I would definitely go higher than one hour over and above the injectors R and I. From what I have read, that's a task that can be tedious with only a 50/50 success rate of repair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmorris Posted April 5, 2016 Share Posted April 5, 2016 Is the extra labor op on the Ford side. I have used Mitchell times since the mid 90's and there has never been any difference between injectors and injector seals. Example: Both 5.9 hrs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted April 6, 2016 Author Share Posted April 6, 2016 Well, I calculated the labor in my usual way using SLTS as a basis. Quoted 8.6 hours WITH diagnosis. I have messed with these seals before and yes, they can be a pain. The hard part is the retaining clip. Also my first time using Alliant Power for parts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Amacker Posted April 6, 2016 Share Posted April 6, 2016 The hard part is the retaining clip. Also my first time using Alliant Power for parts. If the retaining clip, spacer and top of the injector are fine, leave them alone. Pick the D-rings out and replace them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmorris Posted April 6, 2016 Share Posted April 6, 2016 That's where my input exit's this thread. I have never had to replace the top o-rings. Last one I had that was blown out was under warranty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buddy_M Posted April 6, 2016 Share Posted April 6, 2016 I'm with Bruce. I tried to pull the snap ring the first time I tried to replace that seal and gave up. I just used a pick to pull it, and used the backside of the pick to roll the new one in so I didnt damage the new one. There was no damage to the spacer or snap ring so no need to replace it IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Clayton Posted April 6, 2016 Share Posted April 6, 2016 This is the method I use and it makes short work of the job, Alliance kits are nice and have everything needed for the procedure. http://www.forddoctorsdts.com/topic/5225-fuel-inj-top-oring-service/ If the top inj o-ring is blasted all to shit, then I would suspect the nipple orings to be faulty also. If you get an assembly line thing going while replacing those O-rings then 1 hour is ok, but you would need extra time to re o-ring the rail nipples. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Amacker Posted April 6, 2016 Share Posted April 6, 2016 When I talk about this in class, I suggest leaving the snap ring in place to avoid ER visits, tetanus shots and stitches. Every time I have a pick in my hand and start fighting something like this, there's a little guy sitting on my shoulder going, "This is really not a good idea....." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Clayton Posted April 6, 2016 Share Posted April 6, 2016 ........... ............. ................ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted April 6, 2016 Author Share Posted April 6, 2016 Well that was a highly over-rated experience. So I downloaded the instructions from Alliant aptb_01-08r1_en.pdf to read the correct method of replacing these seals. For giggles I tried the hammer and punch method despite the fact that is just seemed totally wrong to go anywhere near a fuel injector with a hammer much less a center punch. Until you figure out the correct way to accomplish this properly it is not fun and I wasted time messing round with it. So, yes. Absolutely leave the snap ring and ferrule in the head of the injector as Bruce stated. This is method 1 in the instruction for those of you reading along... and for the acutely interested the remaining 7 injectors went smoothly. I can only add that once I was sure the o-ring was installed correctly I slid the injectors on the oil rail nipples to ensure that they were fully seated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Saunoras Posted April 6, 2016 Share Posted April 6, 2016 I have never seen injectors with the seals eroded away. Any theories on what causes this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Amacker Posted April 6, 2016 Share Posted April 6, 2016 It's a pattern failure across all HEUI engines, IMO caused by the HPOP pulsations. Early 6.0s had the round 7 plunger pump, late went to a V4. Less pistons, larger displacement per piston, larger pulsations, more pulsation damage. They need a big pulsation dampener which they tried by going to the W manifold, which traps a large amount of air in it at all times. The damage is eaten O-rings anywhere in the HO system. Keith has a great pic of the 6.0 injector inlet with the O-ring eaten up but I can't find it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted April 7, 2016 Author Share Posted April 7, 2016 Sure it's not the pic with the failed snap ring and broken ferrule? I might have one that is just deteriorated as well. Shit. I thought about snapping a photo of the injectors on the one but didn't for whatever reason. I still have the bag of seals though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanG Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 so anytime you have an upper o-ring coming apart its due to the fact that the oil rail nipple o-ring is shot? I've only come across an upper o-ring coming apart once and I just threw an injector in and shipped it. am I looking at repeat failure down the road? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Amacker Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Clayton Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 I wouldn't say you are going to have a come back. I have removed oil rails with orings so worn out that the nipples wouldn't stay in a straight position to get the rail back on the injectors, didn't do any repair to it and never had a problem. Then you get some that dump so much oil out that the IPR heads towards 80% trying to keep the engine idling. Every vehicle is different and there is no blanket repair for these things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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