kellyf Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 Hi,Can someone enlighten me on their methods of verifying where oil leaks are coming from.I have one now that leaks from the right rear of engine,this is a 6 liter,and comes out around the back of the starter where the rear engine cover and block meet.This truck has already been worked on 4 times for leak concern.The other tech replaced rear main seal,valve cover gaskets ,twice,and replaced glow plug harnesses.I contacted hotline and they suggested starting at top.I replaced hpop seal,turbo return pipe orings and oil cooler gasket.This leak is vey slow and takes several miles to show up.I am new at this,and need some expert advise.How would you determine the difference of a t-joint leak as to say a block leak?I have cleaned this engine very well and try to observe leak,but cannot find source.Thanks for any help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mlee Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 check the c.a.c hose at the turbo(the blue elbow). they tend to get small rips and let oil drip out through the hose. i change at least one a week, very common. just take the elbow of and bend it arround to find the tears, sometimes you can only see them from the inside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DamageINC Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 I saw a cam sensor leak where the oil would follow the bedplate seal all the way to the rear of the engine and then start to drip... Also, yeah CAC tubes will collect and leak oil *ESPECIALLY* if the engine has too much oil in it... the couplers don't even have to be torn. Anything over 15 qts and the PCV system starts drawing in oil like crazy. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 It is all about developing a diagnostic routine of your own and having patience. The unfortunate thing is that most customers do not have patience and that sometimes spoils the results by rushing the repair. First, common sense applies here in that oil flows down and back on this engine and almost all oil leaks eventually show at the bell housing. See THIS POLL for which oil leak sources are most common. Not everyone has participated in this poll yet!!! I am a firm believer in using engine oil tracer dye. There are several key points to know when using dye that will help you succeed: Each bottle of dye is good for 5 quarts of oil. On a Power Stroke with a 15 Qt capacity you will need three bottles of dye. I think they are 1 oz. bottles. Using the proper concentration of dye to oil will assure that the dye will be visible under UV light. I also recommend that you use a high powered light such as the ones that connect to the vehicle battery. They actually project a broad beam of strong light. The battery powered pen-type are okay but they are just not as bright. Use the yellow enhancing eye glasses as well. . For some reason, the oil dye does not show well when used with really dirty oil. If the oil is very black you might consider changing the oil before adding the dye. This might seem pointless if you are going to have to remove an engine or otherwise drain the oil to make the repair. My opinion, 15 qts. of oil cost less than two or three attempts to fix the leak. . Some bad leaks show up fairly quickly. Many techs are in the habit of installing the dye and returning the truck to the customer to return later for inspection. Not a good idea. You may end up with oil everywhere which will still leave you guessing. Detecting the leak at the first sight of dye is the best way of pinpointing the source. I have had to drive vehicles sometimes to get the engine hot, allow for pressure to have an effect or in some cases, allow enough time for a leak to seep enough to begin showing dye. BE PATIENT! Oil leaks at the bed plate are the trickiest to deal with because oil will travel along the seam the entire length of the engine and end up at the rear cover or transmission bell housing. There have been times when oil has seeped along that seam and had not been visible on the side of the block! The most common sources for a bed plate leak are the cam and crank sensor seals. Leaks from the engine supply oil pump area also tend to travel along the bed plate seam as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kellyf Posted February 26, 2007 Author Share Posted February 26, 2007 Thanks for your suggestions and help.I think the bedplate may be leaking.Shop manual states to remove engine and mount on stand which we do not have.Guess I'm having to learn the hard way like so many others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mekanik Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 Each bottle of dye is good for 5 quarts of oil. On a Power Stroke with a 15 Qt capacity you will need three bottles of dye. I think they are 1 oz. bottles. Using the proper concentration of dye to oil will assure that the dye will be visible under UV light. I also recommend that you use a high powered light such as the ones that connect to the vehicle battery. They actually project a broad beam of strong light. The battery powered pen-type are okay but they are just not as bright. Use the yellow enhancing eye glasses as well. I never thought about this. Maybe this is why oil dye never really works for me. I hate oil leaks. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crybaby2.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Amacker Posted March 2, 2007 Share Posted March 2, 2007 Another quick tip I've found very useful on those pesty slow crankcase leaks: Put dye in, (the correct amount- I usually use too much to make it easier. You young guys will understand this as time goes on /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif ) Seal off the crankcase vent on the left side and use the output side of the shop vac to pressurize the crankcase via the oil fill tube. I have a cut off tranny funnel that fits into the oil fill tube, and then I just stuff the shop vac hose into the funnel. This applies about 1psi to the crankcase and makes small seepage leaks jump out. This will save a boatload of time diagnosing a small leak that normally only shows up while driving. Tip- do a quick clean of the shop vac and leave it on for 20 seconds before applying the air to the crankcase to prevent blowing a bunch of dust into the oil! Good Luck, and have a great weekend! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kellyf Posted March 7, 2007 Author Share Posted March 7, 2007 Foundleak to be coming from rear engine cover.Decided to replace cover,but found out there is a national backorder on this part.is there a problem with these covers I don't know about?Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LARRY BRUDZYNSKI Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 A/T 3C3Z6G091AA on b/o but the locator shows that dealers all over have them. M/T 3C3Z6G091BA show 2 at the Nat. depot also shows on the locator. I guess that explains why I don't have the A/T cover. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CERTIFIEDFORDTEC Posted March 8, 2007 Share Posted March 8, 2007 When you replace the cover dont forget to cut the bedplate seal when removing it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DamageINC Posted March 8, 2007 Share Posted March 8, 2007 The cover itself isn't really an issue, but ends up getting replaced somewhat frequently because the STC fitting that bolts to the branch tube has a tendency to separate with some pretty tremendous force, bend the branch tube back and smash up against & literally crack the rear engine cover. We actually had a truck come in on Monday with the same concern, I'll try to snap a pic of the cover for you all... Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted March 9, 2007 Share Posted March 9, 2007 muttstang posted these in our PhotoPost area! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/thumbup.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott B Posted March 11, 2007 Share Posted March 11, 2007 You guys are fortunate in that Ford does not use the Cast-Iron flywheel housing with the rear engine mounts like International.It is a Ball-Buster to heave up on there from Under the tk.But it does stop the branch tube dead in its tracks when the fitting Blows LOL..!It cant crack this thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted March 12, 2007 Share Posted March 12, 2007 Scott, I did a couple of those soft gear recalls and I know what you mean. If I recall the gears had access covers? I was thinking how much more difficult that recall would have been if the cover had to come off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott B Posted March 12, 2007 Share Posted March 12, 2007 Your right the Rear main seal Carrier is what covers the Idler gear.Once you pull that off its a easy deal to pull the cluster gear and Idler gear.They always send us a New carrier with the seal installed and once your done with the gears just pop the thing on seal and all.As far as pulling the rear Housing...Yep it is a real Bugger.Other than yanking it for a Gasket replacement.Usually The only other reason for Us pulling it is The Dreaded Branch tube Job.If you ever have to pull a Cast Iron Pig...Glue the spaghetti gasket in its channel with a small amount of Yellow weatherstrip Adhesive Before you try to put it up on. Or I Gaurantee you it will Fall out and Get pinched or smashed on the Inner channel where you cant see it,while you are wrestling it up in there.Also Before yanking it out,I always put a hoist over top and lift up in the back of the Engine.You will never get it up and off the mounts unless you do this.Other than that you can let it sit there without support after this till you are ready to re-install.The front mounts seem to hold it fine.I was figureing the F-650 uses this type of rear houseing but I dont know if thats true.Speaking of 650's we had a customer bring one in a Few weeks ago with cold start issues.I was suprised we were able to plug into it and read data with International software.Called the Tech line and they said if we can read the data go ahead and reflash it with the Buzz Bomb as I call it.It took fine.BTW International just released there Version of the Inductive Heat flash last Friday.I have heard Nothing but good about it on the Ford side of things.Probabley get to try it on one this week at work.International wants it to cold soak overnight before letting them go just Incase there is a Bad injector Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted March 12, 2007 Share Posted March 12, 2007 The F-650 & F-750 has the VT 365 as an engine option. It IS a VT and not a Power Stroke. It uses International parts and electronics so working on one should be natural for you. The inductive heating strategy from what I hear works pretty well and it does not have that silly injector buzz after shut down that many owners object to. I just got our IDS updated last week so I have yet to install this inductive heating calibration as of today, so I don't have a personal opinion on it yet. With the weather starting to turn warmer I am sure we will have less of a need for it until next winter. As for these STC fittings, they just keep coming. Fortunately the cracked covers are not as common! As for the VT-365's, our customers all want CAT engines and we have never sold any VT's. Unfortunately I have two customers that have "imported" their own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott B Posted March 12, 2007 Share Posted March 12, 2007 If the service writer or shop Foreman looks out the window and see's Ford on it and Its a International engine.Right away they tell the customer we cant work on it without even looking at it.It is the first 650 I have seen with a VT,All the ones we ever see have C-7's.Then on the other Hand we Have the Torqshift software for The International LCF only because we are required to by International.I dont think anybody in the Shop has ever did any diagnostics on one yet.I changed one out of a Tk that was In a Wreck that had a Cracked Housing that would be about it though.There are some International dealerships that work on Superdutys but we are Not one of them and they dont plan to get the software either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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