mchan68

Dwayne, I hope you're not even actually trying to waste space in your brain to try and figure how "Super Tech" manages to achieve that. I'm actually beginning to think that someone from his workplace was playing "funny man" by posting that comment. What say you, Jim? Since, you've been to school with him, would he actually be dumb enough?

YES, I agree 100%. If you have read some of Rick Impey's posts, it leaves one with the impression that he seems like a Sobey's meat department employee, or that everything that comes out of his mouth are just plain verbal diarrhea. I have come across more than my share of those kind of guys, during my travels through Ford school. You get an ear bleed after being around them for so long.

Did you say the City Of Detroit? Just think, that's YOUR tax dollars paying this guy's salary, and for this part.

When it RAINS, it POURS doesn't it? And all that for 0.3!

Keith, look what I came across on Yahoo! Answers. Do you know this dealer? Read the details below:

Keith, you wouldn't believe some of the kind of guys I have to work with. I don't consider myself a "pro" at working on diesels, but I will put some kind of effort into fixing "broken" diesels that pass through my hands. Apparently I'm the first guy that has come along that has been "willing" to work on a diesel. For the most part, it takes me all of 2 minutes to change one of these sensors. It takes me longer to bring the truck into the shop, put a parts request in, get the part, than it does to actually do the job. But, apparently I trying to be a "hero" or a "kiss-asser" to some guys in the shop. Just because I don't "refuse" hard work. Yes, there have been a couple that I have successfully upsold an oil change here and there, but for the most part, it's been like you said, "just the recall only please".

I'm a little hesitant to post this, but this last week while I was away for training at Ford school to complete the last classroom course needed to complete my automatic transmission specialty, they passed out all the 7.3s coming in for this recall. I couldn't believe all the whiners! Some of these guys have been in the trade for over twenty years, and they were whining about having to go to the trouble of bringing the vehicle in and putting it up in the air. I couldn't even believe it when one "tech" actually went to the trouble of getting "approval" for 1.0 hr because "it was seized".

I've got one here that came in on the hook as a no-start. It appears that the driver attempted to restart this vehicle several times killing the batteries in the process. Checked OASIS and found no warranty repairs have been carried out except the recalls for the EBP and ICP connectors. Unit has only 80,000 kms. (I guess about 50,000 miles for you 'mericans). After replacing both batteries I got CMDTCs for P1102, P0404, P0405, P0272, P0299, P0341, P2291... etc. Well, when I first attempted to run KOER, it flagged a P1408 and kicked me out. Ran IDS/EGR and it passed, although EGR valve response was a little on the slow side, it did pass. Attempt #2 for KOER booted me out again for a P1284. Attempt to go into power balance failed due to "module out of SYNC". Attempt #3 for KOER revealed no on-demand DTCs, but the same CMDTCs as mentioned above. The engine will intermittently run like it's missing. Monitored PIDs revealed nothing unusual. All the SYNC PIDs indicated "yes". P1408 and P1284? Anybody else ever get those on a 6.0L? Customer didn't have time to leave it, so he's bringing it back next week. Just asking for some input for a head start. Anybody ever have any ICP issues on an '04? Thanks in advance.

The last 7.3L I had for a No-Start with a bad PCM, the "Check Engine" light would stay on when keyed on. Once the PCM was replaced, the "Check Engine" light would come on for a few seconds and shut off, if that helps.

Keith, Jim, and Dwayne, thanks for your support. To tell you the truth, I wasn't expecting this thread to start a debate to this magnitude. I was only venting. To set things straight, the advisor agreed that I should get paid something for my time spent. Whether or not I will get paid will be another story though. BTW, how's the scar on your head healing Dwayne. The guys in my shop seem to think it's funny when I smack MY melon, but when they do it, I'm not allowed to laugh.

Ahhhhh, the devil is in the details.... I'd be posting the name of the other dealer (dealer A) loud and wide.... They can't diagnose a concern? They can't use OASIS to their benefit (even though the TSB lists the part number)? And they can't read the parts catalogue?

 

They have fallen down at least three times that I can figure... and the customer returns there?

 

There's gotta be more to the story.... this is too strange to be true....

 

 

Cruickshank Ford/Lincoln or "Crooked shank"

Jim, after reading my original post, maybe there are some tidbits of information I need to add, just to clarify things.

 

Firstly, the truck was brought in, written up as "Check for 4WD won't engage".

 

What's Step #1 that those Ford courses keep pounding in our head? VERIFY THE CONCERN, which is what I did.

 

So I bring it into my bay and check under the hood to make sure the vacuum solenoid is working as it should. No probs there. Like you say, since there's a module involved, it wouldn't be a bad idea to check for DTCs. Which I did, and sure enough, P1867 came up. After that, I monitored the PIDs and found the selector switch working as it should, with the contact plates, switch status etc.

 

I go to check OASIS and enter the DTC in the symptom code box, and sure enough the TSB appears. So, I put the truck in air and perform the checks as instructed by the TSB, and sure enough, the next step is to replace the shift motor.

 

So, off I go to the parts department to order the shift motor, and no, the "other" dealer didn't have it in stock.

 

After the vehicle is released, is when I was instructed to cancel the order for the shift motor. A few minutes later, the "other" dealer calls the parts guy asking for the part number so THEY can order it.

 

The story goes, "...they don't have anyone to diagnose these kind of problems at the other dealer", was what was explained to me by the advisor.

 

One of my co-workers said that I should've claimed a 14200A wiring repair and charged some M-time on the RO before she had a chance to void or close the RO. I didn't do that because I refuse to stoop to that level. But nonetheless, I was not a happy camper. And yes Keith, the three other guys in the shop certainly made their day, while I got stuck with this, and the poor woman who had her 2003 Explorer butchered up.

 

Again, sorry for the rant.

Originally Posted By: Jim Warman

Most guys in a similar situation wouldn't have offered that courtesy.

None the less Jim, it was a stupid customer trick if I ever saw one. A telephone call is little consolation for the lost time, not just the time spent on the vehicle he is now not going to be paid for looking at and ordering the part, but also the job he would been working on if this guy hadn't happened along. Courtesy? BULLSHIT! It was likely the customers intention all along to USE Mike and his dealer for a second opinion and that is what I have a problem with. It's the good `ol "hooray for me and fuck everybody else" attitude.

THANK YOU!!! Yes, I got SUCKERED, and you saw that. So how or what do I do to prevent this from happening again? This is only for a measely 0.9 which is no big deal. But, what about the diesel stuff, where you and I both know there are a lot of more intrusive tests involved?

For the customers sake, I hope you fucked up! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smirk.gif

 

All kidding aside, that sucks royally and unfortunately there is probably nothing you can do about this either. Suck it up Mike, there are a lot of assholes out there... and they call us Stealerships?

Well, on the flip side of things, I also got an '03 Explorer that some woman had just taken to a "garage" to have four new snow tires installed. She had suspected that they were jerking her around. Well, it appears that whoever did her last brake job didn't seat the front brake pads properly, causing it to wear the oustside lining. Her left headlight was "too low". After taking a quick look, I noticed that whoever replaced her bulb didn't secure the left housing clip into the headlight assembly. No biggie. I finally get to raising the vehicle to change the oil, someone had stripped her drain plug and put in a bigger one. I tried using a 1/2" drive ratchet with a six-point socket and was unable to budge it loose. Not wanting to cause any further issues, I told the advisor that she may be needing an oil pan if I persisted. Well, she instructs me to just leave it. She decided to take it back to the shop, so that if they break the oil pan, they would be responsible. This woman slipped me a twenty and left. A few minutes later, she arrives back with a BAD vibration. I roll it back into the shop, low and behold, ALL the wheel nuts had worked its way loose!!! What the hell is with some of these "shops"? I told her the exact same thing, regarding people's attitudes toward US, and how we are called STEALERSHIPS. Go figure.

It's Saturday. My shift to work today. I get an '06 F-150 in for a 4WD inop concern. Verify concern. Check operation of the vacuum solenoid. Run IDS test and get P1867. Monitor PIDs and verified switch operation with the contact plates yada yada yada. Check OASIS. Run the tests as per TSB 06-9-8 with the shift motor. Ordered the shift motor, and released the vehicle. About half an hour later, I get paged and told to cancel the order. Was told the customer would bring it to another dealer to have it replaced. The story goes, that the "other dealer" had nobody to diagnose it. So, I lose my time, while some other dickhead gets paid!!! Sorry for the rant.

I got that procedure too and after reading it, I chickened out and just pulled the body and engine like I have done in the past. I knew that if something went wrong, I would look like a total hack. This is kind if like in vehicle 7.3l oil pan replacement. Sure it could be done, but do you really want to do it that way? /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/2cents.gif

I agree 100%. Especially when it is a retail repair. The only way to do a 7.3L oil pan PROPERLY is to r & r engine, and seal it with the engine sealing surface ABSOLUTELY CLEAN of any oil residue, and let cure overnight before reinstallation. So what if you have to quote higher hours for the repair, and Joe Meat Cutter down the street will do it for half? At least when it "comes back" it'll be HIS problem, not YOURS.

You guys got to see this. Our instructor for auto trans showed us this today.

 

http://www.bftrules.com/

For the trucks with gasoline in them, they've been rolled to the other tech in the shop - they like to keep me covered with heavy 6.0L warranty shit.

 

He's been popping customers 2.0 hours to drain the tank, plus the regular 1.0 for a pair of fuel filters. He uses a fused jumper to power the fuel pump, disconnects the outlet line from the HFCM, connects a long hose to the HFCM, and routes the hose to the waste oil collection tank. Then he walks away for a while...

 

Yeah, I know... "let me count the ways"

 

 

I agree with the method described, but WHY should a RETAIL job go to ANOTHER tech in the shop while YOU get stuck with warranty 6.0L stuff? What happens if he gets "stuck"? Are YOU required to "help" him? Sorry to hijack the thread, Keith.

What about what you charge for trucks coming in with gasoline? I know that we are SUPPOSED to quote all fuel system component replacement, and void the customer's warranty. But I also realize that, that does not happen all the time.

THANK YOU. That's what I was looking for. I just had a recent 6.0L come in for a retail repair, and the numbers you listed were pretty close to what I had in mind. I suppose I could ask what some of you guys would charge RETAIL for an engine harness, and the ICP sensors on HPOP mounted models (read '03). 8.0 hours for EITHER EGR cooler or BOTH? To me, the oil cooler would be the much harder more time consuming job.

For anybody that responds to this, please use time or hours as an answer. It is highly illegal for competing shops to discuss pricing policies using dollars.

 

That's what I was looking for as an answer. What YOU get paid in labour hours, NOT the dollar amount charged to the customer.

Keith, I was waiting for you to start a thread like this. Maybe some of you will chime in.

 

I'm actually curious myself. What do guys charge for the following?:

 

DIT diag. This means just hooking up IDS and running some standard KOEO/KOER tests. Does your shop charge the same as an EEC diag for a gas engine?

 

Air filters for 7.3L/6.0L E or F series?

 

Fuel filters for 7.3L/6.0L E or F series?

 

Injector(s) for 7.3L/6.0L E or F series?

 

EGR/Oil coolers for 6.0L E or F series?

 

Reflash PCM

 

Turbo R & R and cleaning/replacement for 6.0L

 

What do you guys quote for labour for the above? I've been pretty much just doubling the SLTS times to uses as my own personal guideline when quoting retail repairs, since my boss refuses to purchase any updated Mitchell or Chilton manual. This plus the fact that every tech in our shop is paid the same hourly rate, regardless of specialty achieved.

If this helps any, the last 7.3L that I had, which had a shorted out fuel heater, also got a replacement engine harness. The wiring had melted to the point where metal strands were exposed. This must've taken the PCM out as well. The "check engine" light would come on, and stay on, at key-on. As soon as I replaced the PCM, the "check engine" light would come on for about 10 seconds and turn off. But more importantly, the "wait to start" light would also come on, and the truck would fire up right away. This was on a 2000 E-450, if this helps any. The customer was only too happy to have the truck back and running. But when he came in two weeks prior to that, all readings were well within specs, with no DTCs or anything to indicate that there was a problem. Some "meat cutter" had plugged off the water separator drain with a section of rubber hose, a bolt and two worm clamps, eliminating the drain altogether.

Do you mean for an '04 model year equipped with an '03 engine (HPOP mounted ICP)?

OOOOH Thats Great info. You don't know how many wrong harnesses I've gotten. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/notworthy.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/cheers.gif

By chance does anyone know the engine harness number for the 03

6.0 (pre 9-29-03 with the icp on the hp pump)???????

3C3Z-12B637-AB for build dates before 1/30/03

 

3C3Z-12B637-BA for build dates from 1/30/03 (9D930 harness serviced separately)