kellyf Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 WANT TO KILL MYSELF.THIS TRUCK IS POSESSED.FIRST OF ALL,CAME IN COMPLAINING TRUCK WOULD RUN FOR TWO HOURS ,THEN WOULD CUT OFF AND NOT RESTART.IT IS A 06 F250.TRUCK WOULD START WHEN COLD.HAD A 2290 IN MEMORY,LOW ICP.WHEN HOT ICP NEVER GOT ABOVE 250 PSI.AIR CHECKED AND FOUND LEAK AT HIGH PRESSURE PUMP FITTING.WHEN REMOVED YOU COULD PULL THE PUMP FITTING APART AND THE CLIP INSIDE WAS FLATTENED OUT,SO I KNOW THIS IS BAD.REPLACED WITH NEW PARTS,INCLUDING TSB PARTS.STILL NOT FIXED.REMOVED VALVE COVERS AND REMOVED PLUGS AND STANDPIPES.D-RINGS DON'T LOOK BAD,BUT I REPLACED THEM ALL ANYWAY.TRUCK STILL WON'T RUN.REPLACE ICP AND IPR FRO GIGGLES.NOT LAUGHING.STILL NOT FIXED.CONTACTED HOTLINE.WAS TOLD TO REPLACE HIGH PRESSURE PUMP.STILL WON'T RUN.INSPECTED UNDER OIL RAILS FOR POSSIBLE INJECTOR PROBLEMS.NONE FOUND.CHANGED OIL FOR KICKS.STILL NO START.CHECKED FUEL PRESSURE WHEN FIRST STARTING DIAGNOSIS.IT WAS 49PSI.LAST NIGHT,Layed UP UNDER TRUCK WITH FUEL PUMP COMMANDED ON,PUMP RUNS LIKE SHIT.BANGED ON PUMP WITH HAMMER HANDLE.STARTS TO PURR.REACH UP AND LONG CRANK ,BUT DOES FINALLY CRANK.MONITERING PIDS NOTICE ICP AT 600 AND IPR KEEPS GOING UP.IT IS COMMANDING IT CLOSED.IT IS STILL RUNNING IN THE BAY.EVEN WHEN ACCELERATED.IPR NOW AT 85%.FIGURE FUEL PUMP BAD.REPLACED PUMP THIS MORNING.GOOG FUEL PRESSURE BUT NO START TODAY.REPLACED SECONDARY FILTER FOR KICKS.NO START.WHEN STARTING IPR AT 85% AND ICP UP TO 360PSI.HELP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Amacker Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 FIRST OF ALL,CAME IN COMPLAINING TRUCK WOULD RUN FOR TWO HOURS ,THEN WOULD CUT OFF AND NOT RESTART.IT IS A 06 F250.TRUCK WOULD START WHEN COLD.HAD A 2290 IN MEMORY,LOW ICP.WHEN HOT ICP NEVER GOT ABOVE 250 PSI.AIR CHECKED AND FOUND LEAK AT HIGH PRESSURE PUMP FITTING.REPLACED SECONDARY FILTER FOR KICKS.NO START.WHEN STARTING IPR AT 85% AND ICP UP TO 360PSI.HELP These complaints all point toward one thing: a high pressure oil leak. I'd suggest doing the air check again. Leave the air supply hooked up for 30 minutes, plug in the block heater, and use a stethoscope to help identify leaks. A doctor's stethoscope with a piece of 1/4" brake tube attached to it may be of help, especially if the valve covers are still off. I don't think your ICP value is lying to you, but it's a good idea to look more at ICPV than ICP on this kind of a no start, as ICP is a calculated figure and ICPV is an actual number. You should see ICP at .2v KOEO and it should climb to about 1.5v with the accompanying ICP being about 1200psi while cranking. IPR should spike to about 70-80% momentarily and settle at about 40% cranking. The PCM needs to see the ICPV at .8v or more to turn the injectors on. I also experimented with nitrogen testing at 1700PSI that worked well. Do the air check again, and look around for a nitrogen bottle. The Evap tester in your shop may have the bottle, but you'll have to find a gauge and hose, etc. If you get it started, graph IPR and see if it is climbing or falling. If it climbs, it's almost a sure sign of a HP leak. I don't think you have a base oil pressure problem but a quick test is to pull the oil filter and crank the engine, the filter housing should fill with oil. Good Luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastendpowerstroke Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 I don't think you have a base oil pressure problem but a quick test is to pull the oil filter and crank the engine, the filter housing should fill with oil.I find it's better to get someone to crank the engine over for you or use a starter button so you can watch the level rise and not overflow the filter housing. just my /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/2cents.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mchan68 Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 Originally Posted By: Bruce Amacker I don't think you have a base oil pressure problem but a quick test is to pull the oil filter and crank the engine, the filter housing should fill with oil. I find it's better to get someone to crank the engine over for you or use a starter button so you can watch the level rise and not overflow the filter housing. just my /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/2cents.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif.... or even disconnect the single wire connector on the right side of the engine compartment and connect it to the battery positive post to crank the engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DamageINC Posted October 24, 2007 Share Posted October 24, 2007 I'm sure you don't want to do it again, but I'd seriously do another air test and yank the oil rails again and *thoroughly* inspect the tops of the injectors. I just had one where the #6 injector, right where the oil rail plugs into the injector, the little metal clip had fragmented and demolished the rubber seal in the injector. Caused *VERY* low ICP actually. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kellyf Posted October 26, 2007 Author Share Posted October 26, 2007 It's the branch tube.Tearing it apart now.Thanks for input guys.Geuss I waS just hoping it wasn't:( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mekanik Posted October 26, 2007 Share Posted October 26, 2007 Is the branch tube actually leaking or is it just bent and not sealing on the fitting block? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kellyf Posted October 27, 2007 Author Share Posted October 27, 2007 Took it out and inspected.It has a hairline crack where the tube is welded to the fitting block.Customer bought this truck from carmax.Drove truck two days and broke down;yet they're pissed at me because i'm backed up and the repair is taking to long.It has been a rough week! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted October 27, 2007 Share Posted October 27, 2007 Welcome to our world, Kelly... We have a "tire tax" here in Alberta.... It's been $4.00 per tire for a long, long time.... People b!tch at me, our tire guy (who sometimes is me, too) and the tire manufacturer.... While we all supply tires, none of these are worn out tires.... the customer supplies those and the tire tax is to deal with the tires the customer supplies... not the ones we supply.... But, let's not allow common sense to get in the way of a good "mad". Same with the truck.... we didn't design it, we didn't build it and we didn't break it.... It's not even our place to decide how much a repair will cost - the truck has already decided that and we are merely the "translators". We're booked two weeks right now... that makes for a LOT of mad people.... All we can do is point out that we are giving the truck that is in the bay right now the same care and attention that we will give this guys truck when it gets in... Sympathize with him, empathize with him.... understand his frustration. But we rarely, if ever, get to tell someone something they really wanted to hear... I can often be heard saying "Where's your bowl of cereal... I need to pee....". You don't really get used to giving people bad news - all you can do is tell them sh!t happens and it happened now. Worse yet... not the customer himself but a service truck with a hired driver.... billowing white smoke, coolant level goes down... looks like an EGR cooler to me and I advise him not to drive it. He's mad at me because I have just told him he will have to drive his employers "spare" truck (usually dubbed the "punishment truck")... Sh!t happens.... and Seagrams makes whiskey.... Life is grand.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmack4 Posted December 21, 2007 Share Posted December 21, 2007 been finding lower d-rings on blockoff tubes shreaded/cut leaking.usually gives around 200-280psi during hot crank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted December 21, 2007 Share Posted December 21, 2007 been finding lower d-rings on block off tubes shredded/cut leaking.usually gives around 200-280psi during hot crank Found the same thing on a LCF today as well. This reminds me of the o-ring degradation problem the 7.3L had early on. I have seen other o-rings degrade but it seems like the d-rings on the block offs are most common. Given the commonality I am surprised there hasn't been any kind of upgrade or change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LARRY BRUDZYNSKI Posted December 21, 2007 Share Posted December 21, 2007 Maybe Ford/Nav. needs to take a look at the Cat's and learn something about o'ring technology, they use more orings than anybody else on parts assemblies. It also amazes me as to how Cat can have #'s on everything including the o'rings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted December 29, 2007 Share Posted December 29, 2007 I have a question, when removing the high pressure oil rails do you replace the o-rings on the stand pipes or just replace the tubes and so you replace them EVERYTIME the rail comes off?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted December 29, 2007 Share Posted December 29, 2007 I don't know what other techs do but for me an inspection always comes first and if I don't find anything worn with the condition of any seals I do not replace them just for the sake of doing so. The reason? If they are in good condition there is no reason to and warranty does not pay TO REPLACE GOOD PARTS. There may be exceptions for high mileage engines and special service instructions like TSB's and SSM's. BUT! If I find one bad o-ring I will service them all in any given assembly. There are service kits for these engines that will provide new o-rings for the oil rails, block-offs (and stand-pipes I think). Finding your leak on one bank of an engine does not mean the job is done. I would service the other bank whether it is already apart or not. My shop has been bitten a couple of times in the past so this is solid advice. I would love to know why these o-rings degrade and disintegrate on some engines and not others. Rest assured, if you find one seal is damaged, the others will likely show some degradation as well. In these cases, service them all. I'll see if I can dig up those kit numbers when I return to work after the holidays. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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