hybrid sticker shock

Brad Clayton · July 12, 2008

My advice to anyone who owns a hybrid escape....dump it before you hit 150k or 10 years. Just ordered a traction battery for one $8000.00 for the part only.

mchan68 · July 12, 2008

Was that retail or warranty? What is the warranty for hydrid components for you guys down south anyways? It's 8 years/160,000 kms. for us. I just replaced an electric coolant pump about two weeks ago. Couldn't believe it wasn't covered.

Brad Clayton · July 12, 2008

The battery is 10 yrs 150k, this unit was an '05 with 97k. My dealer is not interested in doing the repair because of the potential for high warranty numbers. I have done all I can do on my end so it's out of my hands now.

I will say that getting the approval for the battery was pretty painless, not too many hoops to jump thru. It's kinda funny because someone on the other end of the phone has to man up and take responsibility as to wether or not the battery in a car they can't see or touch is bad or not.

You gotta love this trouble code description:

Quote:

P0A80 Replace Hybrid Battery Pack (End of Useful Life) TBCM NOTE: The customer may choose to not replace the battery pack due to the cost of replacement. If a new HVTB is not installed, the customer will experience reduced fuel economy and reduced power, which will eventually lead to a failure of the HVTB.

INSTALL a new HVTB. REFER to High-Voltage Traction Battery in this section.

G. Bedford · July 12, 2008

The regular warranty on the traction battery appears to be 8 years/100,000 miles. Those with the California emmissions sticker that are registered in Cali., Conn., Maine, Mass., New Jersey, New York, Rhode Is., and Vermont get the extended 10 years/150,000 miles. I see by the owners guide some emissions components on vehicles in these states also carry a 15 year/150,000 mile coverage! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/cover.gif

Keith Browning · July 12, 2008

I wonder what the parameters are for setting code P0A80. Does the battery monitor or test it's capacity or is this something that engineering decided should pop-up at a certain mileage, time or charging cycles?

Aaron · July 12, 2008

I priced one out retail, just for a giggle awhile back, while I was also pricing out a retail DPF, DOC, and CAT, and Pipe for an 08 SD.

They were around $15,000 /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

(the cat, DPF, and tailpipe was around 9 grand, also for those interested.)

Jeff_E · July 12, 2008

Ya know... You could get a really nice used truck with a 7.3 for that kind of money /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/scratchhead.gif

Brad Clayton · July 12, 2008

I don't forsee any real positive resale value on these once they get some miles on them. Now Ford is trying for a hybrid Fusion....I would stay away, personally.

eastendpowerstroke · July 13, 2008

I found this about the premium hybrid price VS the time needed to recoup it from this Motor Trend article

When hybrid cars first started selling well a few years ago, many people argued that despite their superior gas mileage, they actually made little economic sense. With three to four thousand dollar premiums and gas hovering below $2 per gallon, most owners would trade in their green machines long before they covered the difference in cost.

But now things are different -- the national average price of gas hit $3.758 today and Camry Hybrid sales were up 40 last month over the same time last year. With Prius sales also jumping a whopping 53.8 percent, clearly American drivers are tired of suffering at the pump and are turning to hybrid cars as the answer. But this raises a question: are they a good value? The USA Today has released a report arguing that many hybrids will pay for their price premiums after a relatively short period of time. So say you drove an average of 15,000 miles per year, just how long would it take you to make up the price difference?

For example, the price gap between a Honda Civic EX-L with nav and a similarly equipped Civic Hybrid is around $1890 (though your dealer experience may vary). The regular four-cylinder averages a combined 29 mpg, while the hybrid gets 42 mpg. With gas currently at $3.76 per gallon, you would need to drive approximately 21,000 miles to make up the price difference between the two cars, which at 15,000 miles a year would mean you'd be making a profit before your 29-month lease was up. A Camry Hybrid costs only $231 more than a normal, four-cylinder XLE, and for that price you'll cover the premium in around 2100 miles -- not long after you're done breaking in the engine.

Of course not every hybrid stacks up as well against the competition. The four-door hatchback Prius doesn't have many direct competitors, but if compared to a similar-sized vehicle like the VW Rabbit four-door, the Toyota's combined 46 mpg (versus 25 for the VW) means it will make up its extra cost in 38,875 miles -- about two and a half years on the road. Put the Prius up against another fuel-sipper like the Honda Fit, however, and it would take a considerably longer 82,275 miles to cover the premium, more than five years of average driving.

According to the USA Today report, when it comes to economics, not all hybrids are created equal -- especially when they're expensive or offer limited fuel-economy improvements. They calculate that buyers of the Toyota Highlander will need 12.7 years to break even, while you'll have to drive your mild-hybrid Saturn Aura 24.3 years to cover the price difference. So what's the worst hybrid value on the market today? That would be the Lexus LS600h -- when compared to a regular LS460L, it would take a whopping 102.6 years of driving to make up the difference. Of course by that point you could probably sell it to a museum and recoup some of your costs.

What's your opinion -- are hybrid cars finally worth the extra money, or is it still smarter to get a less fashionable, ordinary fuel-efficient car? Beyond going strictly by cost per mile, given their popularity, hybrids aren't exactly being sold at discount prices. What if a dealer offered you a gas-guzzler at a bargain? Chrysler is even offering a deal that guarantees you $2.99 gas for the next three years. So what do you think: is it time to take the hybrid plunge, or should we stick with traditional internal combustion for little while longer?

mchan68 · July 13, 2008

My only question is WTF is Toyota thinking, with the Lexus hybrids? Anyone who has the means to own a Lexus, has means to pay for the fuel required, and the the upkeep, END OF DISCUSSION.

Brad Clayton · July 13, 2008

Driving habits and location affect these things. In my area, there are no "cities", no stop and go driving, no rush hour. I drive the interstate to work 30 miles one way and might pass 1 car on my side and 4 heading the other direction. Vermont is basically the "bumfukegypt" of the USA. It's cold during the winter so the engine is going to run to get some heat. Some people live where it's wicked hot all the time so you're probably going to have the a/c on, and if you decide to suffer and roll the windows down for the benefit of fuel mileage in town, the Escape will run the a/c whether you like it or not to cool the battery if it gets hot.

If I bought one (which I wouldn't), I wouldn't reap any benefits of the design other than some sort of tax break or whatever they offer for going green.