GregKneupper Posted September 27, 2008 Share Posted September 27, 2008 I have and lcf that I have inherited from our sister store. I have been working on powerstrokes for many years but this is my first lcf. Complaint is check engine light coming on. It has a 333 code. It only sets under wot and runs perfect all the time. You can watch icp and icp desired and there is a good 900 psi difference between the two. The other store replaced the hpop, ipr valve, all stand pipes and orings. I have dissasembled all of their work and reinspected everything. I also air tested the system with the pump off and could not find any leaks. It only sets the code when hot. The oil and filter are new and is the correct type. Have been in contact with hotline and was told that it was going to need injectors. I have never experienced this on a 6.0. Does any one have any other information on this concern or know of something that I may be missing. Any help would be appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Amacker Posted September 27, 2008 Share Posted September 27, 2008 I'd verify low pressure oil system performance before getting to deep in this one. They don't have an oil pressure gauge in the dash and my CF600 MD recordings show the EOP steady at 25psi regardless of engine rpm, which makes me sure it's a bogus number. This will probably require yanking the EOP sensor and installing a manual gauge for a road test. If the LP system checks out, I'd deadhead the HP system by grounding the IPR return momentarily to see how much ICP it will build. IH tech support says 4100psi is a minimum and I'll agree with that. My guess is either the HPOP is starving due to LPOP performance, or the HPOP is bad. A 333 at WOT with no other complaints has commonly been a bad HPOP in my experience. (I know yours is new) It's common to see this exact complaint on a DT with a bad HPOP. I don't understand Hotline recommending injectors. Good Luck! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted September 27, 2008 Share Posted September 27, 2008 I had a biased ICP sensor on one with a 333. Have you ruled that out as well? Other than that and Bruce's advice I have commonly seen that code with high pressure leaks and no starts... but you covered that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregKneupper Posted September 27, 2008 Author Share Posted September 27, 2008 the icp sensor has been replaced as well as the connector. I have not verified the pressure of the low pressure system. When the engine is cold it will easily produce over 4000 psi. The theory behind the injectors is that they are spilling to much oil. I personally have never seen this but that does not mean it could not happen. I will test all this later next week as I have to go to school next week. What is the possibility that the new pump is bad? I have heard people say that they have had bad pumps out of the box but I have not. I cant imagine that 2 will do the exact same thing. I also wanted to mention that when the engine is hot that it does have a hard start. It will always start but it is excessive. It really feels like it has a high pressure oil leak somewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Amacker Posted September 27, 2008 Share Posted September 27, 2008 I also wanted to mention that when the engine is hot that it does have a hard start. It will always start but it is excessive. It really feels like it has a high pressure oil leak somewhere. Do you have access to a high pressure gas like nitrogen, or a Porta-Power pump? Both of these sources of pressure have been used successfully in diagnosing HP leaks. Good Luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregKneupper Posted September 27, 2008 Author Share Posted September 27, 2008 No I do not Bruce. Sounds like a good idea though. I cant think of anywhere else it may be leaking though. All the seals, d rings, stanpipes, and hpop orings are all good. I even pulled the caps off the end of the high pressure oil manifolds and they are good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
International Tech Posted October 1, 2008 Share Posted October 1, 2008 ive had several UPS w/ the 275's that were very hard to start when hot and would throw NO codes. I was in contact with our tech support and a set of injectors corrected the problem. I would say that the injectors would fix it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregKneupper Posted October 1, 2008 Author Share Posted October 1, 2008 Thanks for the reply. I am back to work tommorow and will get more into this vehicle in the morning. I will let you know what I come up with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregKneupper Posted October 2, 2008 Author Share Posted October 2, 2008 Came in this morning and truck was gone. While I was in school they had another tech replace all the injectors. They drove it over an hour and said that it was fixed. I hope that it is. So I guess that the injectors were obviously the problem but I cant imagine that all of them were bad. It had to have been one or maybe a few causing a problem. But finding which one would be difficult unless you swapped one injector at a time and test drove it after each replacement. I have inspected all of them out of the vehicle and physically there is nothing wrong with them. This is the first time I have seen an injector cause this concern without the d ring being blown out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blown99 Posted October 24, 2008 Share Posted October 24, 2008 Had one today that was similar. Engine would develop a miss at operating temp only under a load of 80% or greater. I got the engine up to operating temp, removed the valve covers, removed the ecm relay so the engine will not start, full field the IPR valve and jumped the starter to crank the engine. Found two injectors to be leaking excessivly. Techline wanted a complete set so that is what it got. All is good now. No 333 code on this one though, but icp was erratic only when it was skipping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 I have one of these in my bay now, code 333, engine runs fine. I was able to verify that ICP is too low when higher ICP is desired. Using MD Truck I performed KOER with and monitored IPR, ICP-DES, ICP Pressure and Voltage. Sure enough, when ICP desired was at 2173-PSI and ICP actual was 1871-PSI. Code 333 is set when ICP measured is less than 362 PSI than desired for greater than 7 seconds. But wait, the difference is only 302! What? Hmmmm. I think I need to talk to the fellas at Ford. I did pull the Oil rail plugs and standpipes which showed the beginning signs of deterioration, but no where near enough to cause a pressure loss. Passes all other tests, fuel pressure steady stays over 40 PSI... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Amacker Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 What's IPR command at a hot idle? Ground the IPR return wire while it's idling and makes sure it builds 4100psi or more. This is a common problem on DT engines- blows a 333 as soon as you go WOT, max pressure about 1800psi when deadheaded. Good Luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastendpowerstroke Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 I've just had a run of STC fitting failures on LCF's three in the last month. I bet you got one going on!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 After inspecting everything and putting it back together with new seals I still had the same concern which I expected because there really were no failed seals but I did notice the block off seals starting to show signs of degradation. I dead headed the pump and tested both heads one at a time and with both connected with the injectors disabled, cranking I got over 4300 PSI. It was suggested I try a new IPR and recheck - then replace the HPOP if the concern still exists. It did. So I replaced the HPOP. It is now fixed. Bruce, I recall the IPR was at 32% hot idle which is a little high which was our only clue. It passed all testing so without any leaks I apparently had a volume issue with the pump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselD Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 back from the dead..... I now have a active code 333 getting set when hot under load/up a hill at WOT. Been around the block on railplugs/standtubes, little icp dummy plug, swapped ipr, icp and connector. oil change etc. I can watch actual ICP steady drop when WOT until it sets the light when no other conditions are changing. Truck runs great and cant really notice a power loss... I was leaning towards a HPOP causing the issue and from the sounds of it that might be it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Amacker Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 Ground the IPR return wire while it's idling and see how much ICP it can make. It should make 4K or more, I bet it's way short of that causing your 333. I've seen it more than a few times on the bigger engines. LCFs don't read OP in scan data like the real engines do, you might want to CYA and check that with a gauge, too. Good Luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blown99 Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 Most of the 275's I see with this issue turn out to be injectors. Remove the valve covers, get the engine oil up to 186 and run the engine. You will find at least a couple of injectors that are dumping a lot more oil than the others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Bruene Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 Thankfully, I don't work on LCFs at my new shop. But, I have also (in the past) seen quite a few injectors cause loss of ICP. Unfortunately it's difficult to determine which one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselD Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 forgot to update this, I scared the customer away talking about hpop and/or injector repairs...not sure if that was a good or bad thing? I have enough problem child vehicles in my bay(like a 2004 F750 grounding through the ECM/IDM) to not need another one so its probably a good thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.