Torqued_Up Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 I am seenig a lot of hullaballoo about injector failures and fuel. Low fuel pressure and quality being the main part of the discussions I see on other boards. I have an 05 that is dropping 3 cylinders for the first 5 minutes after starting cold. The only thing I have to go on right now is that the fuel pressure is at 45 or just above when cold. That alone should not cause a problem but I honestly think I have about three injectors falling out of the game and I have nothing other than a power balance display to go by. Two in one bank and one on the other. Now that the fuel gagew is on tghe truck, I am parkin it out side to check L A T E R! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted January 7, 2006 Share Posted January 7, 2006 We've seen quite a few with cold injector concerns. Check MF_DES and LOAD and I think you'll see that both are way high. Perform the enhanced power balance to take the FICM adjustments out of the picture and you'll see which ones you need to change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted January 8, 2006 Share Posted January 8, 2006 Good advice from Jim. You will likely find those three injectors are your problem. This is the time of year that early injector failure becomes noticeable during cold starts. Unfortunately at my dealer we keep getting bit in the ass by replacing 2 or 3 injectors and then finding that the rest become a problem after installing a few new ones. There is just no way to determine if the entire set of injectors has been subjected to the affects of poor fuel quality or low fuel pressure before getting into it, especially if it's running very poorly. Here's another good one to chew on... a post from TDS where allegedly an injector tip has broken off and caused (obviously) severe engine damage: Quote: Were you using any additive in your fuel? If yes, which one? ------------------------------------------------- The reason I asked is that some additives contain alcohol and will dissolve water into the diesel. Because the 6.0L uses a very high injection pressure coupled with the high pressure in the diesel, this water can explode as steam in the injector tip and cause the tip to crack. (Some additives are not safe for our engines!!) In this case, the failure would be the fault of the additive, not Ford. An other example of the owner/operator being responsible for the damage and blaming Ford...I'm not saying that happened in this case, but at this point, I don't know?? Does this theory "hold any water" or is this guy all wet? /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/rofl.gif He is right about not wanting to disperse water in the fuel by using an alcohol based additive bit I don't know what to think about the steam explosion part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted January 8, 2006 Share Posted January 8, 2006 "Steam explosion" technology is already being used to make wood pulp and to treat other raw materials. I can see where there is a possiblity that even small amounts of water could flash into steam... the volume change is tremendous between liquid and vapour.... with enough force to cause damage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted January 8, 2006 Share Posted January 8, 2006 Yeah but do you think it's really possible? I mean there's a lot of trucks out there and I have had my share with water making it to the engine. I have yet to see one blow the tips off the injectors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snw blue by you Posted January 9, 2006 Share Posted January 9, 2006 If that was the case ALL injectors would be affected, not just one. Are we to assume that this engine had THAT much water in the fuel? Why has this not happened on a regular basis? I have had numerous no starts,poor running,diesels where the sole cause was water in fuel saturation, and none broke injector tips. BOGUS! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/drinkingdude.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torqued_Up Posted January 9, 2006 Author Share Posted January 9, 2006 Cylinders 7,6 & 8 not contributing at first start, 7 comes back first and about 5 minutes later 6 & 8 start hitting. Then smoothes out but 8 shows low under a load untill really hot. Load = 87% MF-DES = 31Mg Two things here are that the idle smoothes out before any advanced diagnostics can be performed and now I know why I stopped wasting time with the enhanced injector interrupt test. The interrupt cancels when I toggle to the PID monitor screen to record MF_DES. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/shrug.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G. Bedford Posted January 11, 2006 Share Posted January 11, 2006 Some pictures of the innards of an injector damaged by low fuel pressure. fuel injector You can see one section broken off the return spring and the plunger retainer has shattered to bits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted January 11, 2006 Share Posted January 11, 2006 Good pictures! Thank you for sharing them. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/thumbup.gif I've been waiting to find one like that to photograph and perhaps write an article on the topic of mainenance, fuel quality and fuel filers. Now I know what I am looking for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpatron Posted January 11, 2006 Share Posted January 11, 2006 Originally posted by Torqed-Up:[QB] I am seenig a lot of hullaballoo about injector failures and fuel. Low fuel pressure and quality being the main part of the discussions I see on other boards. Apparently low fuel pressure causing injector damage is a concern because some techs STILL do not check the fuel pressure under load. The customer gets it back, loads it up with a few thousand pounds and drives it until excessive ICP pressure destroys another injector. Then it is back in the shop for injectors several times! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G. Bedford Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 In our shop we check fuel pressure by using the PVT PID with the WDS. Since most of our techs grab the WDS for the self tests, why go find the gauge bar, too? If I leave the shop to monitor PID values of the different sensors, I just set it to capture/record if my fuel pressure drops below 45psi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snw blue by you Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 In our shop we check fuel pressure by using the PVT PID with the WDS. Since most of our techs grab the WDS for the self tests, why go find the gauge bar, too? If I leave the shop to monitor PID values of the different sensors, I just set it to capture/record if my fuel pressure drops below 45psi. Excellent idea! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/thumbup.gif The setup I use is pretty simple,and easy enough to monitor while driving. When I first started with the 6.0L, checking was a pain, it only took a wiser man, a Home Depot, and about 5 bucks for me to change my attitude. If for nothing else, I can sell a fuel system service, and , or eliminate dry firing /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/rockon.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CERTIFIEDFORDTEC Posted January 19, 2006 Share Posted January 19, 2006 Has anyone seen where the chassis cab f-series fuel tanks start to delaminate on the inside. This also causes low fuel pressure and i have had my first 6.0l with this and so far i have replaced 3 injectors on it. All others have been 7.3l's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HGM Posted January 19, 2006 Share Posted January 19, 2006 Biodiesel has been causing that...Check with the cstomer and hope he tell you the truth...Does the exhaust smell like french fries? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted January 22, 2006 Share Posted January 22, 2006 Brian... there is either a TSB or SSM regarding fuel tank delamination... haven't had the pleasure yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay-D Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 Its SSM# 18945 DELAMINATION OF THE FUEL TANK LINING MAY OCCUR ON THE STEEL FUEL TANKS DUE TO THE USE OF FUELS CONTAINING ETHANOL, METHANOL, KETONES OR CONCENTRATIONS OF BIO-DIESEL GREATER THAN 5%. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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