Who's drained the most oil/fuel out of a 6.4 pan?

Aaron · August 7, 2009

I got 25L on Monday. (26.5QT for you non metric type guys.)

Who's got lots?

Brad Clayton · August 7, 2009

The most I have seen is about 16 quarts. I always keep two drain pans handy even on just a basic service with an oil change.

joshbuys · August 7, 2009

I have had 3-5 quarts out the CAC and filled a 5 gallon drain pan almost to the brim and a second 5 gallon drain pan about 1/4 full. So that's about 26 - 30 quarts (24.6 - 28.4 for all you metric types up there in Canada). The drain plug was covered with 'fuzzies' and cylinder 2 was melted pretty bad on that one.

jimmy57 · August 7, 2009

Did anybody REALLY think the 6.4 was going force you to retire from too little need for repairs?

Aaron · August 7, 2009

I have had 3-5 quarts out the CAC and filled a 5 gallon drain pan almost to the brim and a second 5 gallon drain pan about 1/4 full. So that's about 26 - 30 quarts (24.6 - 28.4 for all you metric types up there in Canada). The drain plug was covered with 'fuzzies' and cylinder 2 was melted pretty bad on that one.

Oh yeah? Well, THE ONE I HAD IS NOT BROKE. Posted Image

Yet.... Posted Image

But you're in the lead so far. Damn that's a shitwhack of oil. Did it run?

joshbuys · August 7, 2009

Yeah, it ran, totally missed, but drove into shop, I've done 3 6.4 engines (2 completes and 1 short block) in the last 6 weeks, actually, the third one (melted piston 8, not as much oil as the other that I posted but it filled the 5 gallon drain pan to the brim.) is waiting for the complete to show up, should be here tommorow, the old engine is sitting on the floor next to the truck right now.

Aaron · August 7, 2009

What's causing the failures?

I've only ever done one, and it was a real REAL early build one. So early they had to send a line engine.

joshbuys · August 7, 2009

Still getting engines off the line, takes at least a week to get one! The high oil level causes the crankshaft to aerate the oil and then suck the oil through the PCV system into the air filter housing, the oil goes through the engine, overheats the cylinders and melts the pistons - these are high idle time engines, the one I have in my stall now has around 86,000 miles, but has 4111 hours on it which equates to 103,000 miles.

These oil field companies are changing the oil based on miles not on hours. It's normal for the oil level to increase 2-3 quarts between oil changes due to the regeneration characteristics of these engines. They're growing 2,3, and 4 times that between changes because of the high idle times.

rlchv70 · August 10, 2009

The oil shouldn't lead to a melted piston. I would suspect a leaky injector.

joshbuys · August 10, 2009

I've seen several without leaky injectors that have melted pistons. Hotline has you drain the oil and let it sit 'til it's stops dripping, then run the fuel pump for a couple hours and it's supposed to show any HP fuel system leaks. It'll leak out the drain hole if you have any leaks. I've seen some that do leak and some that don't. Melted pistons either way. I'm not sure what to make of it, but if you've got excess fuel in the oil and it goes through the cylinders, I'd imagine it would be similar to just over fueling with an injector.

Jim Warman · August 11, 2009

Just so I learn something.... I have always thought that engine oil has a very high BTU rating. I know in a gasoline engine, oil getting into the combustion chamber can result in severe detonation.... I don't think it matters how stuff gets into the chamber - that it is there is all that it takes...

But, is there any empirical evidence linking or negating excessive engine oil in the chambers as being a problem?

Just to muddy the waters.... engine oil bypassing worn rings (lost compression) as opposed to engine oil entering a chamber that seals well...

Keith Browning · August 12, 2009

Considering some of the early failures we have seen related to injector problems I would tend to think Rich is correct. The last engine failure I had in my bay was the only 6.4L I replaced that hadn't "exploded" but rather it began misfiring due to low compression. If you recall my posts, one cylinder had the missing wrist pin retainer which gouged the cylinder but I remember there not being a lot of oil on the piston. Posted Image The piston was not burnt. The other cylinder on that engine that had low compression was #8 (3 holes away) and it was beginning to burn yet still no oil observed on the piston. The fuel trim for both cylinders was pushing the high teens. In this case a mechanical failure and an injector failure were the root causes.

But...

Step into the not-too-Waybac machine and recall the very early build 6.0L engines that had the leaking injector body seals that diluted the engine oil and caused turbocharger failures and oil filled charge air coolers. A few of our first engine failures were caused by this and suffered burned pistons and there was oil found in the cylinders. Since we have also seen 6.4L engines with fuel diluted engine oil and overfilled crankcases... and charge air coolers I would think that similar failures do occur.

Posted Image With the different fuel injection systems in these two engines my thought is that the 6.4L is more prone to pistons melting from injector issues but if enough fuel ends up in the oil it can compound the problem.

And though it was a 6.0L, I drained over 30 Quarts from one engine. My oil drain bucket can hold two diesel oil changes and it overflowed. I did not see it coming! Posted Image

Jim Warman · August 14, 2009

I think I probably over-reacted to "the oil shouldn't"... it was a tad "blanket" for my mood at the time... ut it needs desparately to be taken in context to the conversation...

Ower-reacting is a privelege of age (I hope).

At the same time, the crankcase ventilation system can be a viable source of <extra> "fuel". In the end, suspecting a leaky injector is one thing... proving it can be the clincher... The patterns on this engine are still emerging.... and we want to be sure that our assumptions are apart from our known facts. The 6.4 from hell is still fresh in my memory.

divrging from the topic even further... the truck is an Excursion... the engine is an early build 6.0. The customer concern is a grating noise when going up a hill - he heard the noise once - he shut it off - he is affluent and buys several trucks at a time (just so you know)... after all is said and done, we notice an oil leak toward the rear of the engine. The turbocharger bearings are toast... the oil leak is diesel fuel weeping out around the oil dipstick tube... On that 6.0, I lost track after about 42 liters....

STROKER_T · August 20, 2009

I got an 08 ambulance in yesterday,running hot,drained 32 qts (2 FULL drain pans) from oil pan,and get this,dripping water from drain hole,coolant level dropping at the same time.Pulled the water pump,the front cover is ate away on the bottom right side of the circled housing.This is the 3rd repair of the same symptom,coolant in the oil and overheating...front covers porous on all 3.

Ordered a front cover,my boss comes over and says I need to remove both EGR coolers and test for faulty cooler...now my only problem with that is from what I've seen alot of coolers wont leak unless they're heated,am I right?

I absolutely hate a damn 6.4,what a piece of shit... Posted Image

psdtech · September 8, 2009

I just changed the oil on an 08 6.4 got an eight gallon drain bucket the truck filled it to about 2 inches from the top approx 30qts this truck has 8000 miles and 841 hours and had the engine repalced around 3000 miles unsure of hours then this truck is a plow truck for the local college so i can imagine whos driving it have not figured out whats causing it yet also got a 6.0l e250 with a blown oil cooler that made the coolant solid and its got rear heat in my other bay lucky me oh well job security

Aaron · September 9, 2009

econoline, 6.0, rear heat, etc.

I point and laugh in your general direction, good sir! Posted Image

tec80 · September 11, 2009

Engine oil getting into the combustion chamber WILL melt pistons and exhaust valves. Had this problem during development of the 4.5L Duramax, was due to PCV oil pullover.

Steve Mutter · April 4, 2011

I just got 2010 6.4 in today, stalled on highway. I checked the oil level and it is high. The engine is locked up so I went to remove the glow plug harness for #8 and oil/fuel just starts flowing out. This thing is full right to the top. Wow!

Mikill · April 5, 2011

I pulled about 40 quarts from one that was locked up. Customer complaint was vehicle started running rough and then died.

I got in and vehicle barely started and ran extremely rough and would not accelerate. I turned engine off and walked away. When I got back engine was locked up solid. After pushing truck in I found that oil was very high and milky. Degas bottle empty and coolant filled crankcase from front cover cavitation. CAC was so heavy that I needed a second tech to help me pull it out. Four cylinders filled with oil/coolant mix. Luckily for once no rods got bent.

So this simple front cover job turned into a nightmare after the engineers from Ford wanted me to tear down and inspect for any damage. Truck was down for a week after all the run around and then customer came in raising hell because he was losing money and I was just about to open my mouth and tell him that if he took the time to look over his vehicle then he would of seen that his coolant level was getting low and all this could be avoided. His vehicle would of just needed a front cover and he would had his vehicle back within a day. But we can't tell the customer to actually take care of the vehicle that he makes a living with.