Keith Browning Posted March 16, 2010 Share Posted March 16, 2010 FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO DON'T GET A COFFEE TABLE BOOK IN TRAINING you will have one mailed to you at your home address as listed in STARS2 sometime after they become available. NOW would be a good time to log-in to STARS2 and verify your information. At the time of this post nobody is getting them because they haven't been finished and printed yet. Those of us who have already attended the classroom training have used the second proof which has been copied into binders which you cant have. The books will be handed to technicians in training as soon as they are available and the proof copies will continue to be used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjubain Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 Thanks for sharing the info? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mekanik Posted March 18, 2010 Share Posted March 18, 2010 I was told the same thing in class today. Has anyone tried searching the web to download it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted March 18, 2010 Author Share Posted March 18, 2010 Since it isn't completed and out to print yet I don't see how it could be available yet. I am sure that onece the PDF is available it will show up on FMC Fealer dot com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shlep Posted March 18, 2010 Share Posted March 18, 2010 Keith, I have the final revision thats going to print, if any one is interested let me know and maybe I can find a way to send it if my email will let attachments of approx 20MB. Edit... I'll post a link to it on Rapidshare for those who want it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shlep Posted March 18, 2010 Share Posted March 18, 2010 http://rapidshare.com/files/364780640/6.7L_Diesel.pdf.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshbuys Posted March 18, 2010 Share Posted March 18, 2010 Why did they have to go and change the cylinder numbers?!?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted March 18, 2010 Author Share Posted March 18, 2010 Sweet! Thank you. I was told it was probably done last week waiting for Ford to announce the "numbers." Hopefully it won't be long before the printed copies are out. I will add this to the DTS Coffee Table Book page tonight. DONE! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mekanik Posted March 18, 2010 Share Posted March 18, 2010 Why did they have to go and change the cylinder numbers?!?! 'They' didn't change the cylinder numbers. This is Ford's engine and has cylinders numbered in the typical Ford fashion. The 6.9,7.3, 6.0, 6.4 were all International, and that is how International numbers it's cylinders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mekanik Posted March 18, 2010 Share Posted March 18, 2010 http://rapidshare.com/files/364780640/6.7L_Diesel.pdf.html You're the man Shlep!!! In class today our instructor had a pdf, but didn't want anyone to copy it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshbuys Posted March 18, 2010 Share Posted March 18, 2010 Originally Posted By: joshbuys Why did they have to go and change the cylinder numbers?!?! 'They' didn't change the cylinder numbers. This is Ford's engine and has cylinders numbered in the typical Ford fashion. The 6.9,7.3, 6.0, 6.4 were all International, and that is how International numbers it's cylinders. Agreed, but on the other hand, this is a POWER STROKE, and all POWER STROKES previously released 'til now have been numbered 'odd' bank, 'even' bank. I don't mind so much, but it's just been easy to remember - all ford diesels are this way, all ford gassers are that way. Just gonna have to retrain the brain! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mekanik Posted March 18, 2010 Share Posted March 18, 2010 Originally Posted By: Mekanik Originally Posted By: joshbuys Why did they have to go and change the cylinder numbers?!?! 'They' didn't change the cylinder numbers. This is Ford's engine and has cylinders numbered in the typical Ford fashion. The 6.9,7.3, 6.0, 6.4 were all International, and that is how International numbers it's cylinders. Agreed, but on the other hand, this is a POWER STROKE, and all POWER STROKES previously released 'til now have been numbered 'odd' bank, 'even' bank. I don't mind so much, but it's just been easy to remember - all ford diesels are this way, all ford gassers are that way. Just gonna have to retrain the brain! It's just a matter of time until someone replaces the wrong injector. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshbuys Posted March 18, 2010 Share Posted March 18, 2010 That's kinda what I was thinking....I've seen guys do that on the current power strokes too though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted March 18, 2010 Author Share Posted March 18, 2010 It's just a matter of time until someone replaces the wrong injector. And combine that with IQA there could be some interesting results! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spdracer Posted March 18, 2010 Share Posted March 18, 2010 Duramax has done IQA's for a few years now. I have seen people mess them up and in my case it did not run any different. The IQA's in a Duramax are stored in the GPCM and the PCM. If you replace the PCM, there is a function in the Tech 2 to copy IQA's from GPCM to PCM.....and vise versa. I see Ford has decided to put a sticker on the engine listing the IQA's so it's my guess if the PCM needs changed you will need to input all 8 IQA's from the sticker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted March 18, 2010 Author Share Posted March 18, 2010 Yes, according to my hands on for the final exam today it appears Ford will be using a label. Incidentally, IDS will record the IQA data from the processor and tuck it in the session information file so when performing repairs know that you can refer to that data if there is any questions as to what injector went where. Also, if you go to the IQA function in the powertrain menu it will display the data... if performing major repairs it might be good to print that screen and save it with your paperwork... just in case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Amacker Posted March 18, 2010 Share Posted March 18, 2010 Duramax has done IQA's for a few years now. I have seen people mess them up and in my case it did not run any different. Ditto on both Duramax's and Dodge Cummins. I have known people to replace injectors in both without adjusting the IQA and have the truck run fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dieseldoc Posted March 19, 2010 Share Posted March 19, 2010 I am assuming the IQA(injector quantity adjustment) is the same as our trim files(in CAT world). In our older engines the trim code was a four digit code stamped on the injector, our newer engines actually have a file we need to download off sis web and than download into the ecm. In both cases I have either forgotten to program the code or did not have the correct file saved to download, and there was no noticeable difference in how it ran. When did IQA start with ford,6.4? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshbuys Posted March 19, 2010 Share Posted March 19, 2010 IQA is new to the 6.7L on Fords. I dealt with it on Isuzus at my old dealer, and like everyone else here has said, I've forgotten to program the new ones and it ran fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted March 19, 2010 Author Share Posted March 19, 2010 When did IQA start with ford,6.4? It is starting with the new Ford 6.7L. The 6.4L had fuel trim adjustments by the PCM. One thing I suspect is that the fuel trim method allows the PCM to adjust cylinders that are developing problems effectively masking any symptoms until damage has been done. The IQA is just like the Caterpillar deal and the injector code is right on the injector. No files to deal with. My instructor stated that an incorrect code will likely not cause any undetectable symptoms. This had led to several comments I have heard which lead to the question "why bother then?" If we start to think of this as something that is not important then apparently we are missing something. If it is important enough to engineer this in to the design of the engine there has to be a good reason for IQA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshbuys Posted March 19, 2010 Share Posted March 19, 2010 My understanding from previously dealing with Isuzu is that each injector is tested and coded according to how much it can flow in a given time period (Isuzu uses a 30 digit code of letters and numbers). If you were to put together a set of "matching" injectors you can have a better running engine - just like matching flowrates on a performance engine. Perhaps you won't notice a difference when first installing injectors, but will it prevent the pcm from properly compensating injector on times for different flow rates? YES IT WILL!!!! As much as we like to complain about how the engineers have designed this or designed that, THEY'RE NOT IDIOTS! If Ford wanted 'idiots' engineering stuff for them, they'd find a team of monkeys! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted March 19, 2010 Share Posted March 19, 2010 Originally Posted By: Spdracer Duramax has done IQA's for a few years now. I have seen people mess them up and in my case it did not run any different. Ditto on both Duramax's and Dodge Cummins. I have known people to replace injectors in both without adjusting the IQA and have the truck run fine. ......... Ummmmm, this isn't about "the truck ran fine". It's all about what is coming out of the tailpipe.... what our grandchildren and our great grandchildren are going to inherit. ("what did you do, Gramps?" ... "I fucked up your planet, dear".) Everything starts in the combustion chamber... that's why we have flow indicators for injectors (check out the ecoboost for injector flow indicators). What happens inside the combustion chamber is going to determine what the combustion chamber sends down the system... Neither of us has any empirical proof that identifying the injector correctly will or not will alter things, we are left with one of two options.... One option is documented as being the acceptable option... the other isn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dieseldoc Posted March 20, 2010 Share Posted March 20, 2010 When trim files (IQA) was explained to me is that there is a standard, and the ECM knows what the standard is. Every injector is tested at the factory and compared to the standard and assigned a trim file based on its position from the standard. The trim file tell the ecm where each injector is from the standard and the ecm can than adjust itself accordingly. Jim you are exactly right that it is for emission purposes and not idle stability or smooth running. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted March 20, 2010 Share Posted March 20, 2010 We got told there could be rough run, or something else that i can't remember offhand, I don't have the book in front of me, or there could be no symptoms at all, because they changed the IQA on a truck in dearborn to prove a point, and failed to do so when it didn't set a code or cause a driveability concern. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Amacker Posted April 5, 2010 Share Posted April 5, 2010 I got my CTB today, those who have taken the training will probably get one in the mail shortly. Those who will take the 6.7 classroom training soon should get one at the class. Page for page it appears exactly identical to the PDF on this forum. Have fun! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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