topfuel341 Posted May 27, 2010 Share Posted May 27, 2010 Hi everyone! I am a UPS mechanic, and a prior ford tech. I have a vt275 that just came back from the dealer for an egr cooler. I put the truck on the road, and it broke down at the end of the day. I found the 10a ecm/bat fuse blown, with no crank. I replaced the fuse, and it did not blow. I changed the ecm relay to be safe, and inspected the engine harness, and ecm connectors, and did not find any chaffing, or pinched wires. I put the truck back in service, and at about the same time of day, "the next day" it broke down again! Same condition! right now I can not get the fuse to blow, so I was wondering if anyone has had the same issue? possible ecm? Thank you for any help! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted May 27, 2010 Share Posted May 27, 2010 I wanted to say I had one but as I thought about it I recalled the issue was with the relay itself. If we take a look at the schematic in the back of the Coffee Table Book the 10A fuse powers both sides of the ECM relay, PCM, IDM and the EGR controller. If an inspection of the harness and circuit pinpoint tests don't reveal anything those are the items to focus on. I don't know what chassis UPS uses for this engine so I don't know what schematic you have available to you... hence the use of the Coffee Table Book. Perhaps someone else has seen this... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Amacker Posted May 27, 2010 Share Posted May 27, 2010 Welcome to the forum. I'm assuming this is a P-style UPS van and not a CF truck, right? Is it a VIN that ISIS recognizes? CF's had a harness rub problem in the grill area that would probably not apply to your situation. Intermittent shorts are a real bugger to diag sometimes. If a close inspection of the harness does not reveal anything, another option is to de-pin the power side of each component in the circuit and install a separate (smaller) amperage fuse, which will blow at the time of short leaving the 10a fuse intact. If I were working on the truck I'd put an amp clamp on the feed wire near the fuse while doing my testing/running looking for a spike in amperage, even if it were not enough to blow the fuse. Use your scan tool to exercise the EGR while doing this testing looking for high amperage. Looking at the schematic makes me want to question the EGR a bit- putting a 5 or 7.5 amp fuse in that circuit might not be a bad idea to prevent a service call...... Let us know what you do and what fixes the truck. Good Luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topfuel341 Posted May 27, 2010 Author Share Posted May 27, 2010 Hi, Keith! Thank you for the info. I work nights, and will be on it tonight. I will let you know what I find. Thanks again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topfuel341 Posted May 27, 2010 Author Share Posted May 27, 2010 Hi, Bruce! Thanks for the info It is a p 700. Good tips, I work nights, so o will be on it tonight! I will let you know what I find! Thanks again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Amacker Posted May 27, 2010 Share Posted May 27, 2010 Post the VIN if you get a chance...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blown99 Posted May 28, 2010 Share Posted May 28, 2010 I take it this is a workhorse chassis? I work on these a lot and have found chaffed wiring at the top corners of the radiator housing, remove the air filter assembly and check the wiring that wraps around the backside of the ecm/idm mounting bracket. They seem to get pulled tight once techs pull on the harness to remove the right side valve cover. I have never seen an egr valve itself blow a fuse (not that it can't happen) and I would not suspect the ecm. I would run a new wire before I changed any parts if I couldn't find the chaffe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blown99 Posted May 28, 2010 Share Posted May 28, 2010 Just saw that you are in CT, what shop are you out of? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topfuel341 Posted May 28, 2010 Author Share Posted May 28, 2010 I'm out of the Norwalk shop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topfuel341 Posted May 28, 2010 Author Share Posted May 28, 2010 I have also seen quite of few harness chaffing over the radiator. I checked for that, and did not find any issues. From a reply earlier from Bruce, I thought my best optiion would be, to install a breakout box, install 3 test leads with 7.5a fuses covering the ecm, idm, and egr controller. Then I would be able to determine which component was drawing 10amps or more. I monitored the amps at the ecm/bat fuse, and had 6 amps cold start up, and 3amps after warm up. can not duplicate in the shop, so I thought this would help me zero in on it. What do you think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topfuel341 Posted May 28, 2010 Author Share Posted May 28, 2010 vin number 5B4KPD25273426565 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topfuel341 Posted May 28, 2010 Author Share Posted May 28, 2010 Hi, Keith! All you guys are right on top of this! Thanks for all your help so far! As soon as I get my hands on a breakout box, I will make 3 test leads with 7.5 fuses covering the ecm, idm, and egr controller. then I will put it on the road, if it breaks down opening either the ecm, or idm ckt. I will know which caused it. Feel funny asking this question though... what do you think about installing a circuit breaker, in place of the 10a fuse? I know its asking a lot, but it would allow the truck to restart, and make the day. Also the 7.5 fuse at the breakout box would be blown, and I would find it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Amacker Posted May 28, 2010 Share Posted May 28, 2010 In theory a 10a breaker would be perfect. In reality I've seen a lot of IH breakers that should have opened fail to open. Commonly they get hot as hell where they burn your fingers and melt the box. I'd give the drive some instructions and a handful of fuses, and a breaker to use last. Here's what ISIS shows- you do have ISIS, right? I did an IKnow search without luck, hoping to hit on a pattern failure. This is just basic data, but two oil coolers less than 400 miles apart? UPS UPS 55 GLENLAKE PARKWAY NE ATLANTA, GA 30328 Engine: International : VT275 4.5L V6; 200 HP@ 2700RPM WORKHORSE ( 0012NTS ) Application: Model: ESN: 4.5HU2Y0399250 Unit#: Edit Inspection Exp: Notes: NO WARRANTY INFORMATION Order Date: 05/02/2007 DTU Status: DTU Build Date: 05/31/2007 DTU Miles: 700 Miles Warranty Start Date: 10/17/2007 Standard Warranty: Standard Warranty Matrix Time In Service: 2 Years 7 Months Diamond Spec: No Service Contract: No Managed Repair Information Open Recalls: No Open AFCs: No WARRANTY HISTORY (Only upto 5 recent claims) *Only those User IDs that have been properly registered in ER (Employee Registration) as a Warranty Admin will be able to view claim dollar information for their respective dealer accounts/locations. DYYs need to be setup properly in ER. For each dealer account and location code, each User ID that is allowed to access Warranty Claim History needs to be setup in ER with the Employee Position of: Warranty Administrator. CYYs will no longer be able to view claim dollar information on ISIS. CYYs need to use DDEW (or iClaim after it is released). Claim Fail Date Dealer Warranty Code Group Reason Mileage 0020784A 03/23/2010 HINE BROS. INT'L., L.L.C (712950-001) 01 - In Warranty ENGINE COOLER,EGR 40427Miles 0020784B 03/23/2010 HINE BROS. INT'L., L.L.C (712950-001) 01 - In Warranty ENGINE FILTER/BASE/GASKET/MOUNTING BRKT., OIL 40427Miles 0020738A 03/03/2010 HINE BROS. INT'L., L.L.C (712950-001) 01 - In Warranty ENGINE COOLER,EGR 40063Miles 0019655A 03/18/2009 HINE BROS. INT'L., L.L.C (712950-001) 40 - Authorized Safety Recall or Field Change Code: 08907 25647Miles 0019655B 03/18/2009 HINE BROS. INT'L., L.L.C (712950-001) 40 - Authorized Safety Recall or Field Change Code: 08904 25647Miles CALIBRATION STATUS IDM Status: ECM Status: Calibration Status: Vehicle Calibration Scorecard ESC Status: None Electronic Features: Integration Feature(s) Custom Logic VIN: 5B4KPD25273426565 Order Date: 05/02/2007 Model: Build Date: 05/31/2007 Engine: International : VT275 4.5L V6; 200 HP@ 2700RPM WORKHORSE ( 0012NTS ) DTU Date: 10/17/2007 Application Family: Warranty Start Date: 10/17/2007 Application: DTU Status: DTU Wheel Base: 157.0 DTU Odometer: 700 Miles GVWR: 16000 Original Gear Ratio: 000 PC Number: Programmed Gear Ratio: Paint Color Code: Order Number: Selling Dealer: (99305-) AfterFrame: 0.0 Customer: UPS UPS Address: 55 GLENLAKE PARKWAY NE City, State Zip: ATLANTA, GA 30328 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topfuel341 Posted May 28, 2010 Author Share Posted May 28, 2010 Hi, Bruce! I have ISIS. This truck has had 2 EGR coolers. It now has a pretty good oil leak from the top of the motor, didnt get in to that yet. Sounds like a good plan. After thinking about using a breakout box, to install lower amp fuses, without having it in front of me, not sure if I can pull it off the way I was hoping? I really apprieciate all your help! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Amacker Posted May 28, 2010 Share Posted May 28, 2010 You don't need a BOB to install the fuses. Locate the circuits you want to protect, like the ECM pin X4-2 and X4-1 and de-pin them at the ECM connector. Go to the parts dept and get a male and female spades that match the ECM pins (PNs in ISIS under "Connector View" in schematics IIRC), put one male and one female spade on a fuse holder that has 6" pigtails. Install this fuseholder into the circuit at the connector and tape the power feed that's exposed to the atmosphere. Repeat for each additional circuit you want to protect- 12 pin connector pin 10, and even EGR controller pin 1 if you want double protection. (using the VT275 book ski for reference) Good Luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topfuel341 Posted May 28, 2010 Author Share Posted May 28, 2010 Hi, Bruce! Thanks for that info! Sorry for the late reply! working nights, and had to get our dragster ready for a vintage aircraft/car show charity, for kids. I hope to get that fuse setup installed tonight, see how busy my night is. I have 52 trucks in my fleet, that my drivers wait to write up at the last minute. Thanks again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted June 6, 2010 Share Posted June 6, 2010 More close up photos of drag car please Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LARRY BRUDZYNSKI Posted June 10, 2010 Share Posted June 10, 2010 Dwayne, not to sound stupid or anything.....This truck has had 2 coolers right? Have any of the harnesses been disturbed/yanked on when these repairs happened? If its intermittent I would be checking for any broken/loose connectors or possibly pulled wires causing a bad connection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blown99 Posted June 15, 2010 Share Posted June 15, 2010 I had a chance to check this truck out today. Had a bunch of codes for the idm, 525, 534 and opens for each inj. Load tested the idm power and grounds- checked out good. Replaced the IDM that you supplied and programmed it up. Checked out your blown 10 amp fuse complaint. Found the main ecm power wire before it splits off to three other loads to be chaffed on the top right radiator support. Soldered and heat shrunk the chaffed wiring and insulated the harness with some heater hose, added a few body clamps to prevent the harness from moving. I don't recall seeing the IDM power circuit off run off the 10 amp ecm fuse. The IDM has a separate relay and usually a 30-40amp fuse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topfuel341 Posted June 15, 2010 Author Share Posted June 15, 2010 No problem on the pics, but I dont want to sound totally stupid, new to this site....how do I upload pics? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted June 15, 2010 Share Posted June 15, 2010 Click op PhotoPost in the top menu above and then click on upload photos. After uploading you can review the pictures and below them is the code to embed into a post... click and paste. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topfuel341 Posted June 15, 2010 Author Share Posted June 15, 2010 Hi, Larry! ya, it had 2 egr coolers, and I thought I looked at the harness pretty good, but blown99 says he found a chaffed ecm power wire above the radiator support. I totally missed it! My resources here at UPS could be better. Thats why I looked into this site, because we need all the help we can get! I really appreciate all the help and support from everyone here! I didn't even have a schematic, unil I found it here. Thank you for your help! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topfuel341 Posted June 15, 2010 Author Share Posted June 15, 2010 Hi, blown99! Well I feel pretty stupid, that I missed that chaffed wire! I am glad that I found this site, and made a connection with you. It's nice to be able to communicate with the tech that gets our trucks! We are so behinde in our books, and equipment, and it can be a real struggle. I'm looking at sec 7 page 351, and it shows the ecm, idm, and egr controller tied together by the can2 datalink. On the engine & chassis schematic pages 102 and 103 I can see the ecm relay has a 10a fuse, and the idm relay logic pwr has a 10a fuse. I am still uncertain if it is the same, or a seperate 10a? Any way I will have to look back at what circuit numbers I isolated, but it was definatly on the idm side that kept blowing my test fuse, not the ecm. I do see the 40a fuse on pin 85 of the idm main power relay Thank you for all your help! I greatly appreciate learning all I can! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topfuel341 Posted June 15, 2010 Author Share Posted June 15, 2010 Keith, I'm not looking too good man! I just saw the photopost! thank you! Is it ok to post some picks of our racecar? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.