Aaron Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 Any knows on this? It's an 07 with about 55k miles on it. I have no codes, no high side oil leaks, good low side supply. I've found a leaking ICP sensor and have it and the pigtail ordered. I'm using international service maxx as the diagnostic interface. The only thing I noticed a little out of the ordinary is ICP builds to about 1100 psi, but it's jerky. I'm not sure I'd that's just the refresh rate of the scan tool or it's actually surging as ICP builds. Otherwise truck runs fine, and there's no difference between hot and cold and no other issues just the extended crank. Any ideas would be appreciated. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 If the ICP sensor is leaking it is likely also providing compromised data. This could explain your erratic ICP I would make that repair first then re-evaluate your cranking condition before you go nuts. By the way I personally have never seen that style of ICP sensor leak and maybe a handful that were (in-range) biased. We can usually detect a biased ICP sensor by looking at the KOEO voltage, looking at your IPR rate can also tell you something is not right. But you know that. The extended crank and surge might be related to a bleed down condition starting to develop. How do you know that you have no high pressure leaks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Amacker Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 In addition, on a hard start I always tell guys to watch ICPV, fuel pressure, cranking RPM, and on a VT it doesn't have a smart glow plug system so an amperage check is a must. I've not checked a VT but using 6.0 numbers x .75 it should be about 130-140 initially, tapering off to half that after 30 seconds. If scan data looks funky look at basic electrical (battery/starter connections, clean power to the ECM etc) and backprobe the ICP for clean voltage info. I'll never trust an ECM to provide me correct ICP data on a hard start- I've learned the hard way and always use ICPV (either from scan data or backprobing the ICP). I don't have a known good cranking RPM but I would like to see in excess of 175 cranking. I have a capture showing 18.5% IPR at a hot idle on a new truck. Like Keith says, watch IPR command cranking which will give you a clue if it pegs high-near 85%. IIRC VT275s don't read (correct) EOP in scan, so if the LPOP was struggling there would not be a great indicator of it, which could contribute to your trouble. On a long shot poor fuel quality can also give a hard start. Let us know what you find. Good Luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Clayton Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 And don't forget, Aaron, I hear that maggots are an excellent source of protein. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted September 16, 2012 Author Share Posted September 16, 2012 I air checked it when it was hot, but that isn't an absolute. Couldn't hear anything leaking. Will report after ICP and pigtail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Bruene Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Port-plug D-ring leaks are very common on this engine, more so that 6.0s. If the port plug d-ring is leaking just slightly, it can cause the manifold to drain, and the manifolds on these engines are massive in volume compared to 6.0s, and take a long time to fill when they have drained. Another very common 4.5L leak point is the plug on the left oil manifold that plugs the port the ICP sensor would be in if the manifold were on the right bank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Another very common 4.5L leak point is the plug on the left oil manifold that plugs the port the ICP sensor would be in if the manifold were on the right bank. +1 on that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted September 18, 2012 Author Share Posted September 18, 2012 Would these leaks be significant enough to hear during an air test? Apparently my sensor and pigtail are due tomorrow. I was feeding air at the ICP port. As soon as I energized the IPR any air sounds stopped. Haven't worked on a lot of these little motors so sorry if these questions do not sound real smart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Amacker Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 Leave the IPR closed and the air on for a substantial time, you'll have to push any oil present through the (small) leak before hearing the hiss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted September 21, 2012 Author Share Posted September 21, 2012 Got the bastard. Put air to the truck then walked away for an hour or so. Could hear hissing very faint through oil fill hole. Pulled CCV tube out of left rocker cover and could hear leak more. Yanked cover (nice spot for the cab mount) found the dummy plug that plugs the ICP sensor hole leaking, loose and the o-ring eaten away. Thanks guys! Always appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Bruene Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 (nice spot for the cab mount) I hope you didn't remove it. If you remove the CCV, and pull back on the upper portion of the cab mount, the cover comes out easily. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted September 22, 2012 Author Share Posted September 22, 2012 That's what I did, it's just in a really shitty spot lol My boss said this thing has been to the dealer several times for this concern and he was told that this long crank condition was normal. I find myself wondering how much power you could squeeze out of one of these little engines for a hot rod. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Bruene Posted September 22, 2012 Share Posted September 22, 2012 My boss said this thing has been to the dealer several times for this concern and he was told that this long crank condition was normal. High pressure oil leaks have been extremely common on these engines for a really long time. I imagine the design of the high pressure oil manifold has something to do with it. We were putting the updated pipes in these since about 2007... 4 years before the 6.0. Anytime I have an ICP problem, I remove the left valve cover and check that plug. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted September 22, 2012 Author Share Posted September 22, 2012 I've never really worked on one in the Ford world, that manifold is a little on the overkill side! We only have one, the rest of our fleet is internationals and a few Macks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blown99 Posted September 29, 2012 Share Posted September 29, 2012 IH had a recall on the standpipes and dummy plugs for these engines. That was a money maker once you learned how to squeeze the valve covers out past the cab mounts. The icp on these engines reach 3200psi, quite a bit higher than the vt365 (which uses the same dummy plugs and stand pipes) I figure the increase in icp is what has been destroying the o-rings in this engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mchan68 Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 IH had a recall on the standpipes and dummy plugs for these engines. That was a money maker once you learned how to squeeze the valve covers out past the cab mounts. The icp on these engines reach 3200psi, quite a bit higher than the vt365 (which uses the same dummy plugs and stand pipes) I figure the increase in icp is what has been destroying the o-rings in this engine.If it matters, I believe the ICP psi operating range on any 6.0L F-Series from late '04 on up to '07 is between 580 to 3915 psi. Not too sure what this would do to the dummy rail d-rings and standpipes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blown99 Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 I made mention of this because the IH vt365 6.0l does not have any issues with the dummy plugs and or standpipe o-rings like the powerstroke 6.0 and vt 275. The vt 365 runs a max of 2400 psi. The added pressure takes a toll on the o-rings. I sell a lot of standpipes and dummy plugs to the ford guys that claim to have deteriorated dummy plug seals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted October 9, 2012 Author Share Posted October 9, 2012 Originally Posted By: blown99 IH had a recall on the standpipes and dummy plugs for these engines. That was a money maker once you learned how to squeeze the valve covers out past the cab mounts. The icp on these engines reach 3200psi, quite a bit higher than the vt365 (which uses the same dummy plugs and stand pipes) I figure the increase in icp is what has been destroying the o-rings in this engine. If it matters, I believe the ICP psi operating range on any 6.0L F-Series from late '04 on up to '07 is between 580 to 3915 psi. Not too sure what this would do to the dummy rail d-rings and standpipes. You know exactly what it does to the o-rings Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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