the_twig_187 Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 hey guys, I have my first gas in the fuel tank on a 6.0L. customer drove it hard until it died and then towed it to the shop. I pulled the fuel filler neck cap off and "pewww" what a stench of gas. I changed the fuel filters, sent 12v to the pump and drained out all of the contaminated fuel and added 50L of fresh fuel along with some cetaine and lubricity booster. when starting it. everything runs well except a dead misfire on cylinder 7. after a few min cylinder 3 drops out and then a few min later cylinder 1 & 5. After 5 min of running the vehicle, I loose the entire right bank. If I shut off the truck and then restart it a couple min later the process repeats itself (7 then 3 then 1&5) buzz test passes (all 8 click) Compression test (passes) I'm looking for anyone with experience with this... should I recommend replacing #7 which could be causing the issues on that bank, with the option of replacing the 3 others at the same time (let the customer decided)??? thanks always Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mchan68 Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 You should be recommending replacement of ALL EIGHT INJECTORS in this particular scenario. END OF DISCUSSION. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_twig_187 Posted February 9, 2015 Author Share Posted February 9, 2015 yes... your right I will recommend all 8 but give him the scenarios that if we do just 4 or just 1 that he could be back in a week/month/year to replace others due to failure caused by contamination Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mchan68 Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 My point exactly. Nip this issue in the bud by doing all eight, and remind him he should be thankful he's driving a 6.0 truck and not a 6.4 or 6.7 truck, because the hit would've been far more expensive if that had been the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Amacker Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 I'm in favor of all 8 also, but this sounds like a loose injector bleeding combustion into the rail and dropping other cyls in the bank. Does anyone else see this? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Saunoras Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 I see far more injectors fail internally causing combustion gas in the fuel rail rather than a failed copper washer. My guess is it's the pintle or the spring that seats it I go by the injector that starts missing first is the culprit, the others on that bank are being dry fired when they miss and they need replaced also. Don't forget to replace the banjo bolt on that side too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_twig_187 Posted February 10, 2015 Author Share Posted February 10, 2015 that was exactly my thoughts when I first started seeing the same bank cylinders dropping one by one. I pulled the fuel filter out and connected the starter wire to the bat + and I didn't see any bubble forming in the fuel bowl. but that's not to say that once the vehicle warms up that the #7 injector ( one with the dead miss) is causing the others on that bank to bleed dry and begin to fall off. this guy is cheap (who isn't these days) I will just cover my ass and give him all three options 1) replace injector #7 and see what happens 2) replace all four on right bank and see what happens 3) replace all 8 and have piece of mind that you wont be back for failed injectors for a while ( and if you do they will be covered by 2 year parts warranty) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Saunoras Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 .Remember to quote fuel filters and a blue spring upgrade too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buddy_M Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 If you are going to give the option of a single injector, may be worth while to add in to pull the other 3 to reseal. While they're out, you can hold your fingers over 2 of 3 fuel inlet ports, fill the port with brake clean, then apply air with a rubber tip blowgun to the tip and watch for bubbling coming back thru the fuel supply port possibly. I've had 2 trucks now that have had 2 injectors on the same bank push air into the fuel rail. Thinking the second one started scoring the plunger/barrel due to no lubrication from fuel, so your truck may be in a similar situation from the gasoline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 I'm in favor of all 8 also, but this sounds like a loose injector bleeding combustion into the rail and dropping other cyls in the bank. Does anyone else see this?Agreed and there seems to be a consensus on this as there should be. Any time you see a "system wide" condition that affects the injector, like fuel contamination or low fuel pressure, it means that the entire set of injectors was exposed to the condition. Just because one or two are acting up, the remaining injectors will have a high probability of failure as well if left behind. This is not good for customer satisfaction or your reputation. While they cost a lot to replace the entire set, doing so in multiple repair attempts will be even costlier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amailloux Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 A set of injectors is far better than a blown off tip taking out the engine AND a set of injectors. Usually if they refuse and want to do just 1, we politely decline the repair. It makes your shop look bad and takes up valuable shop space when something bad happens, no matter what the customer agrees to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mchan68 Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 I'm in favor of all 8 also, but this sounds like a loose injector bleeding combustion into the rail and dropping other cyls in the bank. Does anyone else see this?Agreed and there seems to be a consensus on this as there should be. Any time you see a "system wide" condition that affects the injector, like fuel contamination or low fuel pressure, it means that the entire set of injectors was exposed to the condition. Just because one or two are acting up, the remaining injectors will have a high probability of failure as well if left behind. This is not good for customer satisfaction or your reputation. While they cost a lot to replace the entire set, doing so in multiple repair attempts will be even costlier. ..... and hence why my first reply to this thread for those of you wondering, or thinking if I'm just trying to play "parts tosser". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_twig_187 Posted February 10, 2015 Author Share Posted February 10, 2015 So the customer has decided to go with option #2 (replace all four injectors on the right side bank) he is aware that he may have issues with the left side bank injectors sometime in the future because of the exposer to the gas but he is willing to roll the dice and perhaps replace all for left side when the time comes. I will do all four on the right side and update the results Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Amacker Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 Put a couple of bottles of Stanadyne in it, and give him a couple more to use in the future.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forddieseldoctor Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 Agreed and there seems to be a consensus on this as there should be. Any time you see a "system wide" condition that affects the injector, like fuel contamination or low fuel pressure, it means that the entire set of injectors was exposed to the condition. Just because one or two are acting up, the remaining injectors will have a high probability of failure as well if left behind. This is not good for customer satisfaction or your reputation. While they cost a lot to replace the entire set, doing so in multiple repair attempts will be even costlier. I got burned by that at home. Truck got starved severely for fuel due to someone trying to run the truck on unfiltered used cooking oil and ended up with 1 injector leaking back into the fuel rail. I replaced the one, then a month or two later it was 2 more, then this last summer I put in 4 more. But I can't get it into his head that he needs all 8. Plus now his turbo is sticking bad, but he don't wanna do anything with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_twig_187 Posted February 11, 2015 Author Share Posted February 11, 2015 we have a complete repair! I replaced all four injectors on the right side and fired it up. once the air worked its way out of the HPOR everything was smooth. took it for a drive and it had lots of power and started right up again this morning. told the customer that he may be back in a week/month/year for injector failure on the left side that we did not replace and he was fine with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselD Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 I find that giving the customer options and education helps alot in earning their trust. As long as the customer is fully aware of all the pros and cons I do not see a issue in selling a "partial repair" like your senero. Some may disagree but I have found this has earned me alot of repeat buisness and not in the recheck kinda way! Make sure you have good job notes on the RO to avoid a He said/She said senerio You did good grasshoppa 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_twig_187 Posted February 14, 2015 Author Share Posted February 14, 2015 Thanks guys its nice to have positive feedback from the community. Makes me more confident that im doing a good job 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted February 14, 2015 Share Posted February 14, 2015 I find that giving the customer options and education helps alot in earning their trust. As long as the customer is fully aware of all the pros and cons I do not see a issue in selling a "partial repair" like your senero. Some may disagree but I have found this has earned me alot of repeat buisness and not in the recheck kinda way! Make sure you have good job notes on the RO to avoid a He said/She said scenarioI am in total agreement with this and sometimes this is the best you can hope for. If you only have one or two injectors acting up on ONE bank at least replace them all on the affected side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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