ErickBaker Posted January 18, 2007 Share Posted January 18, 2007 I had a 2002 7.3 Excursion come in yesterday for an oil leak. After about 20 minutes of searching for the leak I caught it dripping where the HPOP bolts to the resevoir. I've only ever seen a few of these leak at this location but replacing the gasket always fixed it. I came in today and replaced the gasket. After the test drive I checked for leaks and it was still leaking in the same spot. While I had it apart I checked for any scarring on the gasket mating surfaces and found none. Does anyone have any ideas or has seen this before? I know the usually leak at the fittings on the HPOP but this on isn't. You can watch it and it has a very slow drip where the HPOP and resevoir bolt together. I guess I'm going to pull it back apart in the morning and check for any operator error. Thanks in advance for any help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted January 18, 2007 Share Posted January 18, 2007 You are aware that there are two different gaskets? And you matched up the old and new? Worth mentioning. There is a plug on the lower half of the HPOP that requires a mirror to view. The o-ring for that plug has been known to split just like the oil line fittings... I could swear that I saw a part number for that o-ring but we have always had to replace the pump because the ring is supposedly not serviceable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktmlew Posted January 18, 2007 Share Posted January 18, 2007 I've always used this kit. Reseal all three ports at the same time. That plug leaking is fairly common on vans. HP oil pump fitting o-rings--Package of 3 for 98.5-03 2C3Z-9G804-AA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted January 18, 2007 Share Posted January 18, 2007 I know what you are talking about, there's the two fittings and the plug on the back, I think is a relief valve. The plug I am telling you about is UNDER the pump below the fittings for the oil hoses. I think it's a 1/2" or 7/16" plug. Really hard to see in the truck... wish I had a picture... FOUND ONE! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktmlew Posted January 18, 2007 Share Posted January 18, 2007 I know what you are talking about, there's the two fittings and the plug on the back, I think is a relief valve. The plug I am telling you about is UNDER the pump below the fittings for the oil hoses. I think it's a 1/2" or 7/16" plug. Really hard to see in the truck... wish I had a picture... FOUND ONE! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif OK. I haven't had one leak there. Good to know. I really like using dye so there is no doubt where it is coming from even if you do have to remove some parts to be completely certain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErickBaker Posted January 19, 2007 Author Share Posted January 19, 2007 Thanks, I went in today and looked at that plug and it appeared to be leaking. I put my wrench on it and sure enough it was loose. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/notworthy.gif I removed the plug and replaced the o-ring this morning.(Its a very easy job.) I did it in about 15 minutes, but lets not celebrate yet. I went to start the truck after the repair and guess what. Low ICP. I played with the truck the majority of the day trying to get it to start. Yesterday when I replaced the HPOP gasket the truck fired right up after I finished. But after I replaced that plug it would not start. I thought it probably had a lot of air in it since when you remove that plug it seems to drain from the pump. I can remove the ICP and the pump will push oil out. The resevoir is full. Is there anything I'm missing? The truck will only build about 65 psi of ICP. I noticed that plug has a long rod made onto the end. If i don't have any replies in the morning I guess I'm going to pull the pump back off. I'm out of ideas, and it's been one of those weeks. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/drinkingdude.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/banghead.gif As always thanks for all the help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 Eric, was that o-ring damaged and what did you use for a new o-ring? I am thinking that o-ring needs to be of the same material as the fittings. Since I have never serviced that plug, I don't know what is behind it. If it holds in a valve or a spring perhaps you dropped it? Just a thought. Since my parts countermen cant find a service part for the o-ring, we have replaced the pumps that were leaking there, so I cant help you more than I have at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G. Bedford Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 Here are some pictures of the HPOP disassembled. http://rides.webshots.com/album/54701954RsTFrJ?start=12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErickBaker Posted January 19, 2007 Author Share Posted January 19, 2007 Thanks for the picture Mr. Bedford. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/thumbup.gif I was looking for something along those lines today in the coffee table books. The o-ring was a little chewed up but not as badly as some that I have seen on the quick disconnect fittings. I believe that the primary reason it was leaking was that it was fairly loose. Before I looked at the pictures in Bedford's gallery I though a spring may have fallen out. I saw no signs of anything that may have fallen behind/under the pump. Another guy in the shop has had that o-ring leak and replaced it with an o-ring out of the A/C kit. I know I was skeptical when I first saw this too, but it didn't leak and never came back. The mind set at an independent is much different than a dealer. FWIW this is not neccessarily a bad thing, they don't focus as much on what the OE says can't be done and try to fix the vehicle as cheaply as possible without sacrifice to the end quality. But thats neither here nor there. I wasn't crazy about seeing it replaced without the "special" Ford o-ring the first time, but it worked. As I said earlier another tech had a different truck leaking in the same spot. He pulled the pump and put the gasket on it and then it wouldn't start. He pulled the pump again and noticed the o-ring torn. He replaced the o-ring and all was well. The only thing I can think of is that I may not have that rod on the plug touching the IPR restrictor properly since I did it with the pump on the resevoir. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/shrug.gif Thanks again for the help guys. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/notworthy.gif I'll pull the pump in the morning and let you know what I find. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/hammer2.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 Nice find? Or, are those your shots? This looks like the plug in question. As for using any 'ol o-ring I guess it all depends on whether the material can hold up to contact with oil and what kind of pressure we're talking about. If there isn't high pressure behind this, then any o-ring would do... ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErickBaker Posted January 19, 2007 Author Share Posted January 19, 2007 I don't know how high the pressure at that plug is but I'm still kind of skeptical about doing stuff like that. Usually I push to get the right stuff from the dealer to do the job. Especially since the stock o-rings have a hard enough time staying together. But I've seen it work so I feel better about doing it. I'm still fairly green and am still trying to learn what I can and can't get away with. Everybody has their tricks that aren't Ford approved but still get the job done without sacrificing time or quality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G. Bedford Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 Just found the pictures on-line with a quick google search. Interestingly enough, I just did this same repair on a '02 F-250 yesterday. Mine was under warranty yet so I replaced the HPOP. Methinks I will troop into parts tomorrow and retrieve the core for a little "bench dissection" to satisfy my curiosity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErickBaker Posted January 19, 2007 Author Share Posted January 19, 2007 I was just thinking to myself how I wish I had one lying around so I could dissect it. I'll be able to get a good look at this one tomorrow morning when I pull it off. Do you take the resevoir off to do the pump? I know you don't have to but it feels a little better being able to see that the gear is seated correctly. I've never done with while leaving the resevoir on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LARRY BRUDZYNSKI Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 Be careful!!! I just spoke to my local rebuilder on these pumps. You need to pull this pump and bench repair it. When you pull this IPR restrictor plug there is a ceramic check ball way up inside it and will possibly fall out, if it does and you find it you will have to pull the IPR and reinstall the ball in the IPR bore. If the check ball is lost then you have no choice but to replace the pump. As for the o'ring they said that tou can use a hi-temp Viton o'ring, but make sure you check your threads on the pump real common to blow out and strip the threads. If it's o'k when you reinstall the torque on the plug is 22-28in.lbs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G. Bedford Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 Just looked at the pump/core and Larry is correct about that check ball. Remove the IPR valve and look to the bottom of the bore. You should see the ball behind the thin rod section of the plug that was removed. If it is not there a hole allows the oil to return to a cavity at the front face of the pump. Is the ball there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Amacker Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 If the check ball is lost then you have no choice but to replace the pump. I think this ball is available from IH under IH SFN 04-24 Ball:1833830C1 if it's the same as a DT (and I think it is). On a DT if the ball is missing, the truck won't start- this is probably true on a 7.3 also. Good Luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blown99 Posted January 20, 2007 Share Posted January 20, 2007 The check ball is the same as the international DT. You can also use the international DT repair kit for the correct o-rings and sealer for the ferry plugs on the 7.3 pump. The kit consist of the o-rings, few plugs, and a small bottle of sleeve and bearing mount loctite. Be sure to remove all the old sealer from the threads, both female and male. Failure to do so will give you an incorrect torque of the plug which will lead to a leak. Also if you can not achieve the required torque, (usually it strips out)the pump will have to be replaced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErickBaker Posted January 22, 2007 Author Share Posted January 22, 2007 I put a help request up on IATN Friday afternoon and got a lot of the same responses about the check ball that you guys gave me. Thanks for all your help. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/notworthy.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/notworthy.gif Well looks like I'll be pulling the pump again in the morning. On the bright side I'm going to get very efficient pulling the HPOP and this has been quiet a learning experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErickBaker Posted January 23, 2007 Author Share Posted January 23, 2007 The truck fired up today. I found the check ball laying under the turbo charger. Removed the pump, replaced the check ball and test drove it. Thanks to all that replied. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G. Bedford Posted January 23, 2007 Share Posted January 23, 2007 Happy to hear things came out for you. Thank you for posting, because I certainly found out some info on the HPOP I didn't know before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 Anybody ever find a part number for that smaller plug on the bottom? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Amacker Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 Anybody ever find a part number for that smaller plug on the bottom? The ferry plug? IH has an updated plug that has longer threads: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 Ah, so you need to update the plug? Good to know. I think we opted to advise the customer to replace the pump at 140,000 miles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Amacker Posted April 8, 2009 Share Posted April 8, 2009 Yes. They are installed with Loctite at the factory and you should warm them with a heat gun before wrenching them out to prevent yanking the soft threads out with the plug. The threads are commonly damaged, so the replaced plug has longer threads so the pump doesn't have to be replaced when the threads are damaged. Ford doesn't have any of this info in their WSM or TSB's anywhere? I've never seen it. IH has cool videos on DVD on just EXACTLY how to reseal one of these pumps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted April 8, 2009 Share Posted April 8, 2009 The only documentation I have seen on this is on the sheet with the plug o-rings, that has an arrow pointing to THAT plug with "DO NOT REMOVE THIS PLUG" underneath it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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