DamageINC

I don't have a camera here in the shop but I'll try to snap one tomorrow and get 'er up here for ya. It's not hard to notice at all though... a good front cover has a smooth, machined surface inside it right behind the water pump impeller fins. This particular one has virtually NO smoothness left anywhere, small little dimples, "shotgun blast" texture across the whole thing. Maybe when I get the new one I'll shoot a good vs bad photo. Dave

LOL That's funny, today I just had hotline tell me that the front cover needs to be replaced for catitation becuase coolant WILL make it's way into the oil. Dave

Ok, so how many of you are checking for front cover cavitation dueing the horizontal EGR cooler replacement? I have one in the shop right now, horizontal cooler blown completely out. After getting my ducks in a row and calling hotline, the guy recommened I yank the water pump and inspect. Sure enough, the whole inside of the front cover is all torn up, HEAVY eroding going on. Apparently that's very, very common when these EGR coolers fail and now it needs a front cover and oil cooler as a result. Maybe I'm just way late on this but I thought I'd mention it here, haven't seen anything on it in the 6.4 section yet. Dave

Checking OASIS doesn't always work though, especially if the dealer knows how to manipulate the numbers.. I can't tell you how many times we've avoided potential bad surveys and 126 numbers for possible repeat-repair scenarios by just not submitting the paperwork for a given RO until we're ABSOLUTELY sure that the 'problem vehicle' has been fixed. And obviously, this will also only result in one documented visit on OASIS. It's a pain in the ass because there's a lot of money that gets left in limbo while we hold the paperwork and it's hard to properly/accurately get paid, but this is a technique that we've gotten very used to using and it's been very helpful to us as a dealership. If the vehicle does come back in week, we still have the original RO on hand and don't have to generate another RO for the issue again. (We obviously reserve this method for issues that we know are far enough out-of-the-ordinary that they've got a higher chance of coming back in) Dave

Vote? Jim W. For prez!!! Dave

I could swear I recall reading about some unpublished labor ops that applied directly to ambulances, but I'm unsure.. does anyone know if there are any out there? I just put an STC fitting and both dummy-plug O-rings in an '06 Ambulance and am trying to get as much time out of this as I can without claiming M-time (becuase that's forbidden in out level-1 shop.) (FWIW, the Branch tube in this thing was BennNnNNnT like I've never seen before, but the rear cover was ok. After some shop deliberation, the SM decided to bend it back. As much as I DON'T want to put a branch tube in an ambulance, I feel that we should have seeing as this is an ambulance. I kinda hope that this thing comes back, as dickhead-ish as that is.) Dave

Tony, this happened to me once (although the body was off too) and I was able to get the hold-down bolt out with a #5 bolt extractor (the tapered left-hand-thread twisty bitches), it pounded RIGHT into the bolt head perfectly and pulled it clean out. I don't know how well you'll be able to access it but it may be worth a shot.. Dave

Actually Tony, I have a pretty heavily loaded 05 E-350 6.0 coming in that I looked at last week, degas bottle venting under load but doesn't loko ilke an EGR cooler concern... yikes. P0299 and EGR codes too, nasty compressor surge after accel.. looking like the turbo might have stuck full-tilt and corned the head gaskets. Still waaaaay too early to determine for sure but this will certainly be the first time I've ever seen blown heads on a 6.0 E-series if that's actually what it turns out to be. Not to hijack the thread... I still don't wanna bend 'em back if they've busted the cover. Dave

I always feel iffy about bending them but I won't even consider it if the rear cover is trashed. Those little braze-sections are so finnicky, the odds of it coming back are pretty good I'd think. Dave

I can't say that I disagree at all, it's just weird the way we do things I guess. We don't have repeat repairs really, it's little things here and there that keep our numbers low. You'd be surprised how little $$ it takes to send a warranty ticket through the ceiling of a 126 analysis - small things like a tube of silicone on a rear end repair, or maybe in our case, to seal up an HPOP cover, that put you $13 over the next shop can KILL your 126 numbers! The hardest part for us to keep clean is the $ PER R.O section, but there are also ways of fucking with that number.. there often times when customers bring their diesels still under base warranty in for simple oil changes, we'll nitpick SMALL little things that need to be addressed and write up a warranty RO - tell the customer that we've spotted a possible source of a headache and addressed the problem for him free of charge under warranty. And then we have a couple very low dollar diesel warranty ROs to help counterbalance the $6,000 head gasket/cooler/turbo combo platter job going on in my bay. the customer leaves happy and feeling good about the service because we took care of things before he knew they were wrong. The thing is, I always end up driving the snot out of these things before AND after my repair to verify that future issues won't be there. I won't say that I under-repair anything, because I really don't. There are certain conditions where we'll be doing a customer a favor maybe, AWA's, and/or maybe the truck has slight mods that we don't believe were the cause of failure but still pose a threat, and we'll simply just take care of the problem at hand as a nice gesture.. But we don't do 'the bare minimum' to keep the $ per RO section low, and our Repairs per 1000 section stays in good standing. But, in the end, it still sucks balls. Flat out. It's hard to explain, but, people drive past 3 or 4 other Ford dealerships to bring their trucks to us. I'm sure there's a good reason for that, and I know that we aren't boning the customer with the way we do the work. We're just boning ourselves. Dave

Yeah, but you gotta realize here, rlchv, a lot of members here are from noooooorth and not the midwest like us. This winter a couple techs on this forum were experiencing AIR TEMPERATURES colder than -40! A 10w30 oil is a necessary minimum at that point! And the CJ-4 requirement has now been, umm, unrequired, apparently. Dave

Actually, our 126 numbers keep getting better. We're on such a heightened awareness level right now that we're killing everyone around us, right now I think our 6 month rolling average for all the diesel repair areas are still between -.3 and -.7, so we're way green on that one. It just sucks to get bitten like that. And the real horseshit thing is that our SM is threatening to charge US (the tech) for any losses incurred for rejected claims due to improper paperwork and/or comebacks. Personally, I have no problem with that, as long as I get paid the fucking door rate for my work here. Otherwise, I think it's flat out absurd to even consider that. Dave

No, although I've heard of WPI. We use "Key Dealer Services" and they've been relatively helpful. I wish we'd use WPI after hearing how much better a lot of these claims get paid out through them though, lol!! Dave

We actually don't have a WA, we have an outside company take care of our warranty RO's. As big of a pain in the ass it is to have them take extra time booking out our tickets, (sometimes it takes weeks for big ones) they have done a very good job covering our asses with this kinda thing. This is the first time I, personally, have been bitten like this by them. (They still notoriously underpay lots of RO's by claiming the wrong, or not enough, labor ops) Dave

Well, we all know that Ford's been nitpicking these warranty RO's like crazy and looking for any reason to deny claims now. I just got bitten by one. Granted, I'll admit that my story for the RO was a little lackluster now that I look at it, but basically, a while ago I short blocked an '04 6.0 due to heavy cylinder wall scoring. That was determined once the heads were off because I was initially performing a head gasket repair. The turbo froze up and blew out the heads and coolers in very impressive fashion. Either way, I write everything up and mention in the story that "The EGR cooler has been damaged due to the turbocharger failure and requires replacement. Replaced EGR cooler". The cooler had mass amounts of coolant inside it, it was obvious as day that it's trashed and would fail a bench test immediately. The EGR cooler was kicked back because, in the story, I didn't state WHAT damage was done, only that it was damaged, and that in itself is not grounds for replacement. Cuuuuute. Dave

Oh I know, I ended up leaving it running and "massaging" the harness with a prybar in a bunch of various locations - nothing happened at all. They decided that they want it back and now the vehicle's leaving. I suppose as long as it doesn't quit on 'em when they need it, I'm fine with that, lol. I really only have maybe 2 hours into looking into the whole ticket so I'm not totally out on my ass here, I did all that I really could be expected to do and so far it's all inconclusive. I'll keep y'all posted. Dave

Jeff, that's some great information to keep in mind for sure, however I don't think it applies to this particular vehicle right now - After a jump start, this thing has been running fine on it's own power for the last 2 days. No starting/voltage concerns whatsoever, and even at idle the system voltage hovers near 14 volts. I personally haven't run into harness issues yet with these but our other guy here has had a few and I know they're a bit of a frequent failure point when this concern is present. I think I'm gonna listen to Tony and mchan here for right now and spend some quality time with the harness... Dave

Ok kids, here we go. (I'll be long-winded) '06 Ambulance, apparently this thing had been running all day. The drivers stopped in at a store for roughly a half hour, and shut the engine off when they parked. They go to leave - crank no start. They end up having it towed to our shop. I get to it and immediately I begin to wonder if I'm dealing with another trashed D-ring in the oil rail (seems to be very common all of a sudden with the '06MY 6.0's.). I go to the vehicle and try to start it - batteries are almost completely dead, KOEO the air bag light's flickering and whatnot. They tell me that they didn't cank it long at all, so I'm just forced to assume here that the key was left on during the tow and possibly even longer. I jump it, and it fires right up. Drive the vehicle around, monitor all my pids, everything looks spot-on. Get it good and hot and bring it back to the shop. Shut it off, go to fire it up - perfect. EOT is still over 200* and ICP ramps up almost immediately, even when hot. I air test the system and come up with absolutely nothing, I had the air hose conected for over a half hour. EEC testing brings up a TON of codes, but I honestly want to believe that these codes are the result of the low voltage from the battery scenario.. the codes are: P0231 Fuel pump secondary ckt low P0562 System Low Voltage P0606 PCM fault P0611 FICM Performance/fault P115A Fuel level low/forced limit power (tank is 3/4 full) P1378 FICM supply voltage low U0155 Lost communication with ICM The shitty thing is that some of these codes could ABSOLUTELY be pertainant to a crank-no-start, but they are also very likely the result of the low voltage. I've cleared them and am going to see if they come back, but I simply can't get this thing to not start. I've commanded opened/closed the EGR valve and watched the voltage, sure enough, there are no EGR codes but that valve is getting pretty sticky. I highly doubt that it was stuck badly enough to create the no start though. They DO NOT want the vehicle returned until we are positive that it's been fixed, and Ican't blame them seeing that it is an ambulance. I don't want to start ripping open the High Pressure system in hopes that I'll find a problem, but that may be what I end up doing here. Anyone got any advice? Dave

Absolutely listen to everyone here and use the TSB to aid in your diag here, but I'd also recommend you'd remove the EGR valve from the intake and have a look inside - what you see may surprise you! Not to undermine anyone's responses here but this is something you'll become more acquainted with as time goes on and once you get a good, solid grasp on all-things-6.0 (which I'm slowly learning will never COMPETELY happen with anyone human) you can safely and accurately find alternate methods of making a quick diagnosis. Dave

I'm sure we've all been able to kick ourselves for not listening to this one.. "If you do the things you need to do, when you need to do them, then someday you can do the things you want to do, when you want to do them." And of course, there's the classic - "Remove the bolt" which of course implies that there's 17 minutes of sweating and struggling not mentioned in the workshop manual. Dave

I'm pretty sure it's either Mode 9 or Mode 1 you're referring to (can't remember off the top of my head) but on the gas vehicle you can usually FORCE a drive cycle with that test.. Dave

I suppose, out there on the end of the limb I'm sitting on, that there could be an EGR cooler issue as well.... ? The horizontals are becoming pretty common failure points, however that doesn't necessarily mean that they're gonna be leaking by the gallons every day. Could it be dumping a small enough amount of coolant into the exhaust to biff out the system without creating clounds of smoke and driveability concerns? Granted, you'd likely be noticing coolant loss too (which hasn't been mentioned) but I guess nothing's too far away from possible when it comes to these engines.. Dave

That thing somehow looks even less technician-friendly than the 6.4. Yummy. Dave

I'm diggin' the easy-access hood release. Dave

so there you go, daves side of the story. ill leave it to the people to decide.