2002 f-350 oil concern help

[kevin phillips]

I have a 2002 f-350 in the shop with a long crank time of about 15 seconds before starting.Checkout glow plugs and relay which tested ok.Checked pid data found icp voltage not increasing during first 10 seconds or so of crank time.Checked oil resevoir and found it was low and about empty.Removed low pressure oil pump behind damper and replaced.The oil pump had excessive clearance between the gears but the front cover looked ok.Reassembled and still have the same concern of a empty resovoir if vehicle sits overnight or for a few hours.Removed ipr valve and inspected o-rings and they checked ok.The vehicle has no issues when running and is performing ok untill the next time to crank up if it's sit awhile.Any ideas?I thought maybe about a high pressure pump concern or ipr concern but wouldn't that cause issues once the vehicle is running?thanks for any ideas or helful test info.The pced is leading me in circles.

[Bruce Amacker]

The HP reservoir is draining back through a defective HP pump. Replace the HP pump.

 

Good Luck!

 

 

[mchan68]

The HP reservoir is draining back through a defective HP pump. Replace the HP pump.

 

Good Luck!

 

 

Is there a way to verify this BEFORE replacing the HPOP?

[Bruce Amacker]

On early 94 trucks, the reservoir could drainback due to the lack of a standpipe in the supply side, but that won't apply to all later trucks. You could remove the reservoir and check for a bad gasket but I've only heard of this once in a Gen2 truck. You state it will bleed out in a few hours, I suppose if you removed the HPOP and put a plastic plug in the hole on the rear face of the TC which feeds the HPOP you could verify the problem before buying a HPOP. Plug the hole and fill the reservoir with motor oil or a lightweight penetrant and see if it "goes away". I'm pretty sure this hole is round, you won't have any trouble figuring out which one it is. IIRC, there's a check ball in the pump which fails, allowing the reservoir to drain out. If this were a buddy's truck you might disassemble the ferry plug and edge filter and inspect the components for grime and damage, the pieces are available separately from IH. Maybe Damon will chime in as we've had this discussion before in the HDF. Rusty had one with grime in the edge filter causing a different problem. I'd feel pretty confident replacing the HPOP.

 

Good Luck!

 

[kevin phillips]

Seven hundred dollars ouch.I seen in the pced where it said it had a check valve internal to the pump.Is this a common problem?

[kevin phillips]

Thanks alot bruce for the good info.I have to ok with the customer and i'll update.Time for the weekly ass chewing over the warr repairs and some kind of new things we got phased into yesterday.

[Bruce Amacker]

After reviewing some pictures, the feed port on the back side of the TC is not round but oblong. To cap it you'll need to put a piece of flat gasket material, sheet metal, pop can, etc. between the HPOP and TC in place and snug the bolts on the HPOP.

 

Good Luck!

 

 

[Mekanik]

Bruce,

Is it possible that the gasket under the high pressure resivoir housing is leaking internally back into the crankcase?

[Bruce Amacker]

 

 

 

Anything's possible, but I've seen this problem several times before and a new pump fixed it (every time I got feedback). Maybe one time I heard of the gasket causing this problem, but the bad HPOP's are a bunch in comparison.

 

Good Luck!

 

[Mekanik]

Thanks Bruce.

[kevin phillips]

Customer diddn't like the price from ford so i guess i'll be putting in a ebay unit in a few days.wish me luck

[Bruce Amacker]

The aftermarket is selling them relatively cheaply.

 

Good Luck!

 

 

[kevin phillips]

He ordered one from a rebuilder in florida.I hope that it ends up being a good one.We will see next week

[Bruce Amacker]

Southeast Power Systems?

 

[kevin phillips]

Installed new H-P pump,still have concern,inspected and replaced oil resivoir gasket,no help.I have no idea where to go now. It started this morning and ran about three seconds and stalled,resivoir was empty after stall.Any other things you guys have seen or can think of? I think i may start back drinking again.I looked for oil in the fuel housing and fuel is clean with no signs of oil.It has to be leaking somewhere or not picking up the oil correctly.Im about ready to yank it,the pan has fresh looking gray permatex on the sides.Could a stopped up pickup be the culprit?Thanks for any ideas.

[Bruce Amacker]

Put an oil pressure gauge in and see what your base oil pressure is. The pressure switch port is on the top of the reservoir housing.

 

 

[kevin phillips]

The pressure guage didd't move for about 15 seconds then slowly climbed to about 25 psi then the engine started up and was runnning rough like after a injector replacement or system repair.Oil pressure did climb with engine rpm up to around 32psi at 2500 rpm.

[Bruce Amacker]

Check your specs- IH shows minimum 10psi hot idle, 35psi minimum at WOT. What's your oil pressure hot? (you'll need to drive it)

 

 

[kevin phillips]

Test drove to lunch,oil pressure was fluctuating between 18 and 22psi hot idle.Vehicle has 10w30 motorcraft diesel oil and new oem filter which the spec looks to be the same for the ford engine per shop manual 10 psi min hot idle.

[ShawnEvans]

Im still fresh with these, how do you test low pressure when there isnt any oil filling the resevoir? I tried at the plug right above the oil filter with still no pressure. Cant see where else to try; ford pubs just say "accessible oil galley port"

[ShawnEvans]

sorry, Im on a 1996 7.3L.

[kevin phillips]

I've been using some brass adaptors i found at a parts house and testing where the oil sending unit goes and using a manifold guage bar.

[Bruce Amacker]

The oil test port on the top of the oil reservoir is pressurized (obviously), as that's where the OPS is for the "dummy gauge" on the dash. (it's not a true gauge, but a needle activated by an on/off switch)

 

The OPS is at the same place on all 7.3 DIT engines.

 

Kevin: Your reservoir is still draining out after it sits?

 

 

[Brad Clayton]

I would put two pressure gages on this old girl when its cold. Put one where the sending unit goes and the other on the bottom left side of the engine back at the last bell housing bolt. You'll see a tiny little plug hanging out that is a square drive. Put the second gage there. This can give you an indication of a pressure loss from the bottom to the top of the motor if there is a split between the two. If they both read low or high at the same time then you can chase a base oil problem.

 

Had one once that had a crank replacement and a main bearing was left out. The above procedure once instrumental in finding it.

[kevin phillips]

Yes it's still draining out of the reservoir and if you fill the reservoir up it will start and not die.Oil pressure takes to long to build on port in top of housing and in block.I'm going to yank it and tear it down.I tried another one in the shop and it had pressure within 2 seconds.It's got to be a lube pressure problem still.I'LL update when i find it,thanks for the ideas.