Keith Browning Posted September 20, 2009 Share Posted September 20, 2009 I have been waiting for this. Our BG distributer finally came down to demonstrate their diesel EGR and intake cleaner. It made a lot of noise and a lot of smoke which the entire shop objected to. I never touched the truck as the BG rep set everything up and ran the cleaner through the EGR and the intake. Took a couple hours and after all was said and done... I removed the intake elbow and took a look. Then I took a picture. This intake was not bad to begin with. The carbon was light and not oily. Only a slight ridge of carbon was built up around the valve. The truck had 138,000 on the odometer and was NOT in for any EGR related concerns. I am not impressed, neither were my two team mates. I was less impressed with he presentation and the description as to why this was necessary. Apparently BG thinks that the intake runners clog up with carbon - so much so that airflow is restricted. No, I don't think so. We see buildup around the mixer and the EGR ports from the cooler to the valve clog - but not the runners. I think the only truly effective cleaning for serious carbon issues is hot tanking and steam/pressure cleaning. Period. Of course the trucks will run better when the customers pick them up - you also dumped a can of cetane and detergent in the fuel tank! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted September 20, 2009 Share Posted September 20, 2009 We have the Wynns version.... my own impression rates this product as just another wallet flush. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Mutter Posted September 20, 2009 Share Posted September 20, 2009 also the sound the engine makes when doing the service dose not sound nice, very loud and it knocks hard,we have it in are shop and it was only used one time,the demo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted September 20, 2009 Share Posted September 20, 2009 My first aquaintance with this kind of shit would be in about 1973/74. I was working at a L/M dealership and they bought into the Wynns Xtend program... We would dump a can of <something> into a transmission, diff, transfer case, motor, cooling system, fuel tank, what have you. We would do this without the customers approval.... If the customer balked at the idea, he would not be charged for the <something>... however, Wynns would not pay to remove the <something> and the customer was forced to drive away with stuff he never asked for... not to mention the bad taste in his mouth from the experience and the nagging thought that whatever was put in his cars innards might not agree with other stuff... (all you need is to instill one seed of doubt... and your customer will vanish). To make things more palatable for us techs, there used to be a brightly coloured plastic ring in each brightly coloured can. Depending on the colour, the ring was worth varying amounts... Greed, BTW, wins.... Now... as then... it is all about "moving product". Today, they have shiny machines and tools to use as sales aids... "This will clean this" "That will clean that" and your car will remain new for years and years and years.... The transmission flush machine.... we are supposed to dump a chemical into the auto trans... after the "fluid exchange" we are supposed to dump some kind of secret sauce into the trans .... this secret sauce can turn Dexron 3 into Mercon V... quite possible even Mercon LV now.... Seems like they want us to overlook that pesky torque converter and whatever can be trapped in it... The coolant flush machine... same idea... sell product.... flushing chemical and then top it off with a neutralizer and a stop leak.... Muck fe.... they will often GIVE you the fancy machine... all you have to do is SELL THEIR PRODUCT. Looking at flatratetech.com, you will notice that one of the biggest gripes they have is the "flush queen". This is the kind of stuff that can alienate a customer in a heartbeat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 I was wondering how this EGR cleaning garbage actually did anything at all... The only way for this to have ANY sort of positive effect, at all, in my opinion, is you'd have to feed it into the rear of the cooler, or the up pipe before the cooler exhaust inlet, running it through the cooler, and EGR inlet and outlet and valve itself...but the time required to set all this up, or PERMANENT modifications necessary to the truck to make it happen, in my opinion, would be more cost/time prohibitive than pulling the intake and having it cleaned properly, as Keith suggested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregKneupper Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 I have to agree that the bg egr cleaner is a bunch of crap. We have it here but it has only been used a few times. It was a complete waste of money. I informed the bg guy that it was a bunch of crap and he did not really like my comment about it. He does not really come around me any more. The only way to really clean one is to manually clean it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Amacker Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 Ditto, ditto, ditto, I agree 100%. The BG rep I see at a lot of national conferences follows me around like a puppy dog wanting me to promote his product. NFW. I have heard from reliable sources that on VW diesels the intake manifold will close up due to carbon accumulation, requiring the manifold to be removed and chiseled clean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 I could MAYBE buy into it a little bit if the EBP tube was in the RH manifold and you could force that shit though the manifold at pressure, although most of it wouldn't likely make it through the EGR cooler. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattB Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 I went through the same shit about a month back. We had a coked up intake on one and my boss wanted me to give this a try instead of pulling the intake and cleaning it manually. So BG comes out and we run his crap through. I pulled the elbow afterwards and the only difference was that now I had puddles of his solvent in the intake. My BG guy says "I'm not too surprised, that's the worst one I've ever seen"! It was bad, but far from the worst I've seen. What's funnier is that's the same thing he said after he demo'd one to us at my last place. From his talk before we did it, you'd think it would have been spotless regardless of how bad it was. I don't think he expected me to inspect it afterwards. It's all just a show. He expects us to be in awe from the huge clouds of smoke when we run the cleaner, and then we're sure to feel the difference on our drive afterwards. Just like the "tornado" and "fuel atomizer" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STROKER_T Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 Absolutely the worse service up-sell ever...wallet sucking for sure...I cant believe they get away with selling that sh#t,it will drop a bird from mid air,and it just does not work! We get some severly clogged ones here,that service doesn't do it,the ONLY way is like Keith says and hot tank/pressure clean(alumi-acid dip),sure it costs more,but it's the right way... On a side note,what's it worth to pull the intake for the cleaning? We charge 6 hours,just curious if it's not enough or 2 much...can have it off in an hour or so usually,but going together always takes longer... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 Mitchell manual says 8.0, 8.5 for dual alternators. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony302600 Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 Absolutely the worse service up-sell ever...wallet sucking for sure...I cant believe they get away with selling that sh#t,it will drop a bird from mid air,and it just does not work! We get some severly clogged ones here,that service doesn't do it,the ONLY way is like Keith says and hot tank/pressure clean(alumi-acid dip),sure it costs more,but it's the right way... On a side note,what's it worth to pull the intake for the cleaning? We charge 6 hours,just curious if it's not enough or 2 much...can have it off in an hour or so usually,but going together always takes longer... This is what i started doing torwards the end of me being at the dealer. Any egr concern that had a severely coked up egr passage would get a up sold egr intake cleaning sent down to our IH dealer who had a hot-tank. The only problem was that they took too long to do it so i stopped. It worked wonders and i woulda loved to do it more if we could get them back in time. Our BG guy said that Chicago uses their EGR cleaning system on all their 6.0's with great results. Chicago NEVER, NEVER, NEVER turns off their ambulances, until the EGR passages are so coked up they wont move. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted October 3, 2009 Share Posted October 3, 2009 Our BG guy said that Chicago uses their EGR cleaning system on all their 6.0's with great results. I think your BG man is full of SHIT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattB Posted October 4, 2009 Share Posted October 4, 2009 The only way I could see the BG kit working is as a routine prevantative maintenance, but if you figure out the cost if that it couldn't possibly be worth it. I think me and Tony are talking about the same BG guy too... Chicago might be using the stuff, but it's Chicago politics. The only reason it's being used is because somebody's pockets are getting lined higher up the chain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted October 4, 2009 Author Share Posted October 4, 2009 The only reason it's being used is because somebody's pockets are getting lined higher up the chain. I also believe this little problem is brought on by people getting paid... people who either don't really understand whether the product or service is of any real value to the customer or they simply don't give a shit. The same can be said for aftermarket warranties. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted October 4, 2009 Share Posted October 4, 2009 There is no secret.... you show the customer a can of shit... you show the customer a machine that injects he can of shit into his motor... You promise him stuff but make sure that you say "results can vary". PT Barnum said "there's one born every minute"... he wasn't lying. Some people/companies/processes take advantage of the fact that most people don't understand machines.... Enter the "wallet" flush.... You can stick your cock up somebodies ass without ever having to pull his pants down.... This stuff is all "high profit margin" stuff... makes it attractive to service managers that spent more time in business school than mechanics school... Unfortunately it is the customer that suffers and it is the mechanic that will get the blame.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted October 4, 2009 Share Posted October 4, 2009 You can stick your cock up somebodies ass without ever having to pull his pants down.... You sir, owe me a keyboard that's not filled with beer ejected out of my nose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony302600 Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 Originally Posted By: Tony302600 Our BG guy said that Chicago uses their EGR cleaning system on all their 6.0's with great results. I think your BG man is full of SHIT I never said I believed him.....i just stated what i was told. I think all the flush's are a joke and not worth it. When customers asked me the honest opinion i tell them to just follow their owners manual. FLUSH QUEENS aren't mechanics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 Originally Posted By: Aaron Originally Posted By: Tony302600 Our BG guy said that Chicago uses their EGR cleaning system on all their 6.0's with great results. I think your BG man is full of SHIT I never said I believed him.....i just stated what i was told. I think all the flush's are a joke and not worth it. When customers asked me the honest opinion i tell them to just follow their owners manual. FLUSH QUEENS aren't mechanics. Din't say you believed him, just said he was full of shit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Certified Posted October 2, 2010 Share Posted October 2, 2010 Yeah....from the way the one sounded that I watched them run the demo on.....I'd rather pull the damn valve and pour a pot of boiling water in the port...It would probably work better than the BG actually. Just wait until the super techs at jiffy-quick-change get wind of it though....I can already see the letters on the sign.. "Intake manifold damp? Coolant venting out of the fancy holding tank thingy? Black smoke? Stop on by, we can fix all your drivability woes in the time it takes for us to throw away your factory oil filter cap with our Can-O'-Magic!!!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LARRY BRUDZYNSKI Posted October 6, 2010 Share Posted October 6, 2010 SOOOOO!!!!! Let me get this straight(not that I don't know the answer already) Let's flush the intake with some fluid we don't know what's in it and blow all this crap thru the intake and into the engine........Where does it go and what does it do to the engine???????? THIS IS NOT A LATE 60's-early 70s engine we could use some water to blow off the excess carbon build up...... This engine eats its own shit and NEEDS to run hard with a load to clean itself out....... If it needs help to clean itself. It needs our help.....NOT THE TUNEUP IN A CAN...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Saunoras Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 we have MOC products here and i guess service has been under some pressure to sell some of these 6.0 kits. had one in today for some maintenance and my manager upsold a kit without my knowledge. i'd seen it demo'd but never ran one cust pay. i see no value in it like everyone else but i inadvertently stumbled upon another problem...... how do you tell a customer, oh i was in clearing EGR codes from the service you wasted your money on and by the way you have a P0611 and further diag shows your ficm is on it's way out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted February 23, 2011 Author Share Posted February 23, 2011 Sounds to me like this truck was "pre-diagnosed" for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Saunoras Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 yeah further diag = mpwr pulled up on the screen showing 39.0v while running Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSHTech Posted February 26, 2011 Share Posted February 26, 2011 "Intake manifold damp? Coolant venting out of the fancy holding tank thingy? Black smoke? Stop on by, we can fix all your drivability woes in the time it takes for us to throw away your factory oil filter cap with our Can-O'-Magic!!!" But in all seriousness. People somewhere are buying this product. And using it. Probably often. Or else they wouldn't keep comming around with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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