sixturbosix Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 I commend Toyota for their unwavering help in bailing out the US automotive industry.They have done more in 2 weeks than Obama, the entire US congress' and 700+ billion dollars ever thought of achieving.Who would have thought it could be this easy to restore faith in the domestic auto industry.This fuck up even makes the 6.0l powerstroke diesel look appealing.I would rather my 6.0l powerstroke be in the shop than me and my Toyota at the bottom of a canyon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 Apparently there is more to the story as I am hearing there are investigations concentrating on safety concerns dating back to 1999. This morning I heard a report on the news of brake system concerns with the Prius. A lot of people still swear by them though and Toyota has had a good record but they are not infallible. I know we discussed Toyota here before and I remember that it seems Toyota has escaped media attention when there are recalls on them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 Toyota. Moving Forward. Uncontrollably. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 Toyota: Can't sell 'em, can't stop 'em. Have you extiguished a Ford... Lately? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony302600 Posted February 4, 2010 Share Posted February 4, 2010 I heard that their former corporate lawyer left the company in 2007 and is suing them for covering up the pedal issue until now. Isn't it great how a corporation (who the supreme court gave the same rights as a person) can kill a bunch of people through neglect only to get a slap on the wrist but if a person kills another person they get life in jail. I was in mexico on vacation when this all unfolded and watched the BBC channel interview people in the U.S. asking what cars they will buy. Some said Ford, some said Chevy, but one guy said he is going from toyota to "maybe Honda." While he drove off, he had an bumper sticker that said, "I'm a republican and I want our jobs back." I chuckled, but then realized uninformed voters have no idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmy57 Posted February 4, 2010 Share Posted February 4, 2010 OK, I have to give those IH and Fomoco engineers a lot of credit for a multi-tiered unintended acceleration fail-safe built into every 6.0. First we have the overtorque EGR coolers that dampen combustion by throwing water on the fire. If that does not do enough then we have pressure relief head bolts. If this also fails to quell the problem then the injectors have that specialo feature where they purposefully fail to seal combustion gases from the fuel supply. The filling of fuel system on engine with combustion gas stops the engine. We were all confused by all of this because as customers so often do, they left out the unintended acceleration that preceded all these "concerns" they told the SA's about that were really the fail-safes kicking in. I worked on a brand for a time that had noisey and vibrating brakes. This car line (Volvo) was not given credit for their advanced engineering either. They had sight=impaired pedestrian audible stop warning brakes on some models and Carpel tunnel syndrome relieving massage through the steering wheel upon brake apply built into other models. The customers absolutely failed to appreciate these advanced features. Have you ever heard of sight-impaired pedestrians being run down by Volvos? You all know that human and animal solid waste is malodorous so no one confuses that with Tootsie Rolls. Another example of lack of proper understanding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbriggs Posted February 4, 2010 Share Posted February 4, 2010 Now thats some funny shit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LARRY BRUDZYNSKI Posted February 4, 2010 Share Posted February 4, 2010 Ok guy's, The ultimate question????? How long did it take Ford to admit the faulty wiring on millions & millions of vehicles before coming up with a fix? My answer.... Ford and the big 3 fed off of this but.....Toyota got off their ass and came up with a fix pretty dam quick. How long did it take Ford? 6.0 6.4 How long and who will they blame? Can't blame IH anymore..... Injectors,head gaskets and egr's,egr coolers???? WHO IS IN AND WHO IS OUT OF TOUCH????? Nothing against Ford but come on....Why can't Ford fix this shit we talk about everyday?????? Why is it the God-D#$ Japs can come up with a fix inside of 2 weeks and we have DPF's on backorder. When will Ford be Pro-active with their dealers? Why is it a great big pissing match between techs and cold-line to get approval to fix a truck. A truck by the way is Fords major profit center???????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbriggs Posted February 4, 2010 Share Posted February 4, 2010 And how many times have the 05s28 jumper harnesses gone on backorder,(in the past 5 years) dont forget all the ones that were fused on the wrong circuit. Nothing like having to recall a recall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted February 4, 2010 Share Posted February 4, 2010 Larry I believe the outrage is that Toyota may have delayed action on this concern for YEARS. While many times we see manufacturers reluctant to move on correcting product issues this is something most people would not have expected from Toyota if the allegations are true. You cite examples of corporations taking the least expensive path and I believe when it comes to safety cost should be secondary. As I stated in another venue, "What is a life worth?" It once again comes back to our society and the values we place on things like human life or profitability. It comes down to the almighty dollar. We see it over and over with Ford and I am sure the rest of them are no different. Inaction has a price as well. It is interesting to watch this play out. We can make light of this and poke fun at Toyota all we want but it is kinda sad... and there are a lot of people out there making some really stupid comments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LARRY BRUDZYNSKI Posted February 4, 2010 Share Posted February 4, 2010 Good points all around. I think the media is the all mighty killer to the manufacturers. The amount of press given is unreal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony302600 Posted February 4, 2010 Share Posted February 4, 2010 Larry I believe the outrage is that Toyota may have delayed action on this concern for YEARS. While many times we see manufacturers reluctant to move on correcting product issues this is something most people would not have expected from Toyota if the allegations are true. You cite examples of corporations taking the least expensive path and I believe when it comes to safety cost should be secondary. As I stated in another venue, "What is a life worth?" It once again comes back to our society and the values we place on things like human life or profitability. It comes down to the almighty dollar. We see it over and over with Ford and I am sure the rest of them are no different. Inaction has a price as well. Well said. Does anybody remember pre 9/11 when congress was trying to pass a law stating that all planes must upgrade their cockpit doors to a stronger one that would make it impossible for anyone to breach it. The airlines lobby'ed and fought it like the healthcare bill and republicans bitched the same way and look what happened....the worst terror attack and they still had to get the doors anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DamageINC Posted February 4, 2010 Share Posted February 4, 2010 Of course, that logic really only applies to those who still believe that 9/11 was carried out solely by "Al-Qaida Terrorists"... *looks around for flying tomatos* Start thread-hijack flame war in 3....2....1... hahaha Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DwayneGorniak Posted February 4, 2010 Share Posted February 4, 2010 And to add to Larry's coments: How many reflashes have we had for the Sick-0 now? 550? 650? I don't think the 6.4 will be far behind that in another seven years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Amacker Posted February 4, 2010 Share Posted February 4, 2010 Everybody has problems. It doesn't matter if it's the Big Three, Japs, or Euro automakers. With the level of technology we have today, glitches are a given. Too bad carburetors and points couldn't be made to run cleaner..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fredsvt Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 I think the manufacturers all have people, be they bean-counters or whatever. They like to play the law of averages. How many of the vehicles will make it OUT of warranty without an issue? And, as Keith stated, they probably also do the same thing when it comes to safety issues. As sad as that sounds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 For Toyota... they've done remarkably well in the past about down-playing and spin-doctoring. There was the engine sludge recall and the "silent" recall on Tercel control arms - probably a few I'm missing, too. In this age of mass production, I don't think there is any manufacturer that has had to announce a recall and I don't think there are any that will avoid it in the future. Humans are involved - there will be a problem. As for the industry as a whole.... I think the working term is going to be "collateral damage".... cars - infrastructure - people. When that human involvement becomes a problem, we will have collateral damage. Back in the 60s and 70s, there was a concept/program/movement/whatever dedicated to "zero defects" The idea was that our brave new world would be perfect and those of us living in it would be just as perfect and all the marvelous new products would be perfect as well... (imagine a hammer that wouldn't let you hit your thumb). Unfortunately, we can't afford perfectionism, yet.... we're probably closer than we've ever been.... (kind of an oxymoron given the complexity of todays offerings). But, if they could build the perfect car, I don't think anyone could afford it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony302600 Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 The Veyeron is a perfect car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 I will bet that the W16 is a lot higher strung than anything Ford has to offer and takes more maintenance than a driveway full of 6.4s... This is probably one of those cars that gets worked on for two hours so you can drive it for one And even this lack of perfection is going to cost you aver a million USD... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 Like I said before, i worked at a toyota dealer briefly. Stuff got put on cars that never got on a workorder that was given to the customer. Just sayin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregH Posted February 6, 2010 Share Posted February 6, 2010 OK, I have to give those IH and Fomoco engineers a lot of credit for a multi-tiered unintended acceleration fail-safe built into every 6.0. First we have the overtorque EGR coolers that dampen combustion by throwing water on the fire. If that does not do enough then we have pressure relief head bolts. If this also fails to quell the problem then the injectors have that specialo feature where they purposefully fail to seal combustion gases from the fuel supply. The filling of fuel system on engine with combustion gas stops the engine. We were all confused by all of this because as customers so often do, they left out the unintended acceleration that preceded all these "concerns" they told the SA's about that were really the fail-safes kicking in. I worked on a brand for a time that had noisey and vibrating brakes. This car line (Volvo) was not given credit for their advanced engineering either. They had sight=impaired pedestrian audible stop warning brakes on some models and Carpel tunnel syndrome relieving massage through the steering wheel upon brake apply built into other models. The customers absolutely failed to appreciate these advanced features. Have you ever heard of sight-impaired pedestrians being run down by Volvos? You all know that human and animal solid waste is malodorous so no one confuses that with Tootsie Rolls. Another example of lack of proper understanding. Reminds me of a Dilbert-ism that is too true to be funny: "All the bugs were reclassified as security features to make the ship date." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DamageINC Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 You know, the funny thing abou thow the Media jumps on something and feeds on it like vultures.. now Toyota is getting shit on for recalling a half million hybrid vehicles for a brake concern. Doesn't the media know that Ford released the EXACT SAME RECALL 2 weeks ago for their Fusion/Milan hybrid vehicles? WE all know that Ford sold over 300 patents to Toyota YEARS ago for hybrid technology and they have been working in cojnuntcion with each other with regards to hybrid technology. And even 3 or so years ago, Ford bought 90-something patents from Toyota for Hybrid vehicle design as well. But, seeing as bashing Toyota is now the "cool thing to do" they will unfortunately be in the same boat that Ford was in 4 years ago. Toyota builds, and has built, good cars. Just like Ford. It's absurd to me that 2 companies can have the same problem and only 1 gets shit on for it. And the fix is just a simple reprogram, if I remember correctly. How about the ENORMOUS Speed Control Deactivation Switch recall Ford has been screwing with for the last 5 years? Did you all know that Toyota has been using the same switch in their vehicles too? Guess what - no recall from them. But Ford took a beating on that one thanks to the media. Fact is, it doesn't matter what the truth is anymore. People who get paid to deliver "the news" will continue to jabber on about whatever the teleprompter tells them to, and the rest of the public will just swallow the information as The Grail and we can only hope that we don't eventually PERSONALL become the subject of something that the media can make look awful. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbriggs Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 On a semi related side note, remember the firestone tire recall? Now that was some bad pr caused by media vultures. Im surprised bs/fs still use the firestone name. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 I think it's aboout time that the media focussed their attentions in a different direction for a while (anyone see Toyota latest ads, admitting they've "recently" let quality slide?). In the past, Ford seemed to be the company that the media loved to hate. Other car companies would have recalls and safety concerns but there always seemed to be a story on Ford already in the news... Now it can be Toyotas turn for a while. Fact of the matter remains.... executive decisions on which parts and features to include in a vehicle are made every day... and they all center around "the most bang for the buck". Not all of these decisions might have been the right decisions... I don't care how many millions of miles they rack up on their test mules, the real product testing begins when they sell mass production units to the beta testers.... whoops, I meant consumers... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrbudge Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 Our body shop advisor has a Corolla, she likes it very much, and has no concerns with it. She asked me if she should get rid of her car, I said if you like the car, then no. If you want to fix it, turn off your tv. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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