nunan Posted February 6, 2010 Share Posted February 6, 2010 my buddy's got an 04 f150 that i helped him throw a junkyard engine in. long story short we've been having a very hard time getting it to run right now. as it stands right now, the truck will barely idle, mostly stall and not setting a check engine light. disconnect the passenger side CMP sensor, and the truck runs fine. Connect it and it dies. no codes are set except the CMP sensor code thats set after its disconnected. I'm lost. any ideas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LARRY BRUDZYNSKI Posted February 6, 2010 Share Posted February 6, 2010 Crossed wires or possibly crimped/pinched wires???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam_Dodson Posted February 6, 2010 Share Posted February 6, 2010 when does it stall? at idle? does it run fine otherwise? the reason i ask is because there is a newer PCM calibration for dirty throttle bodies. After disconnecting the battery or reseting KAM you may have this exact problem if the calibration is old. Have seen it a few times. TSB 08-18-2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Amacker Posted February 6, 2010 Share Posted February 6, 2010 What size engine? 4.6? What year was the boneyard motor out of? Do you have the VINS of both trucks? (In Ohio, they must write the VIN on the invoice that a used part came from to thwart thieves.) I've seen 'almost' the same engines really screw with people. Also, 2004 was a split year for F150s, where they produced both the new style F150 and the "Heritage" F150 that was a completely different truck. Heritage was SCP bus, F150 was CAN bus among many differences, both were 2004. Sheetmetal was completely different. www.car-part.com (junkyard search engine) says the engines do not interchange between the two F150s. In fact, they list two different 4.6 engines (both W VIN) and 6 different 5.4 engines for the 2004 F150. 4.6L (VIN W, 8th digit, Romeo, Heritage), New Style 4.6L (VIN W, 8th digit, Romeo, Heritage), Heritage 4.2L (VIN 2, 8th digit, Heritage) 5.4L, VIN 3 (8th digit, 2V, SOHC, Supercharged, Heritage), (Lightning) 5.4L, VIN Z (8th digit, 2V, SOHC, Bi-fuel, Heritage) 5.4L, VIN M (8th digit, 2V, SOHC, CNG, Heritage) 5.4L, VIN L (8th digit, 2V, SOHC, gasoline, Heritage), w/EGR valve 5.4L, VIN L (8th digit, 2V, SOHC, gasoline, Heritage), w/o EGR valve 5.4L, VIN 5 (8th digit, 3V, SOHC, new style) Did you try swapping the CMP from the old motor in? Are you SURE the CMP harness connector is correct for the right CMP? I've seen several times on Ford motor swaps where a harness has the EXACT same plug on it that will reach the wrong sensor (BTDTGTTS). Taurus O2s, Mustang coils and others come to mind (Grrrrrrr). What exactly have you done to try and fix this truck besides unplugging the CMP? In the future, please give us all pertinent information so we can properly help you. (Haven't we been down this road recently?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mchan68 Posted February 6, 2010 Share Posted February 6, 2010 my buddy's got an 04 f150 that i helped him throw a junkyard engine in. long story short we've been having a very hard time getting it to run right now. as it stands right now, the truck will barely idle, mostly stall and not setting a check engine light. disconnect the passenger side CMP sensor, and the truck runs fine. Connect it and it dies. no codes are set except the CMP sensor code thats set after its disconnected. I'm lost. any ideas?Just by that piece of information, I'm assuming this vehicle has the 5.4L 3-valve engine. What is the condition of the donor engine? What is the condition of the phaser(s) and VCT solenoids? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nunan Posted February 7, 2010 Author Share Posted February 7, 2010 yeah we have, sorry i posted this from my phone after a 16 hour day at my shop and an 8 hour day at his. 04 f150, initially came in for a knocking sound. he concluded he didnt have the time to fix it in house, so he had the guy take it to another shop. the other shop took it apart, thinking it might have been the phasers (which is what i initially thought whne i was asked about it over the phone) theother shop tore it apart and saw the phasers werent missing any rivets and said they prob werent bad and suggested a jasper motor (no idea what the history or tech quality at the other shop was). so it goes back to my buddy's shop, and he farts around with it and figures its probably a motor. he didnt swap any phasers, replace them or any sensors. so he gets a junkyard 06 engine and asks me to help him. I tried to get him to just take some time and diagnose it before pulling the engine, but he insisted on an engine swap. so i got tired of arguing and figured i'd give him a hand swapping the engine (i'm only 21 and he's 34, so my opinion on certain things usually gets overlooked) so he gets this new 5.4 from the junkyard out of an 06 f150. we get it, it has a broken phaser connector on the passenger side (from the removal i'm guessing) and a few other sensor holes either plugged or broken sensors in heir place. so we swapped the stuff from the old engine (which i suggeste dagainst, but he didnt want to waste money when he didnt have to.) truck barely runs at idle, when revvin up it runs rough but runs. it will stall at idle. I had him replace both cmp sensors, check his wiring to make sure nothing is rubbed through or not connected. with the cmp disconnected, it runs smooth, lil rough but will stay running. when we run it through a KOER test (CMP disconnected) it will run through the test fine, and only code it will throw is a oil temp not up to snuff. koeo test shows the CMP disconnected when it is, and nothing when its not. I just talked to him and told him to see if the CMP connecter will possibly interchange with another sensor. he only has a genisys so i cant perform all the tests i used to be able to at ford. if i think of anything else I'll post it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G. Bedford Posted February 7, 2010 Share Posted February 7, 2010 Did you also swap the '04 injectors into the '06? There is a break date and the flow is different. You have to have the '04 PCM to match the '04 injector flow rate or your fuel trims go haywire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregKneupper Posted February 7, 2010 Share Posted February 7, 2010 I seem to recall back in 2004 when this engine was released a few bad cam phasers that would cause that exact concern. I believe the pin in the phaser would fall out and unplugging either one of the cam sensors would cause the problem to go awasy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam_Dodson Posted February 7, 2010 Share Posted February 7, 2010 without an IDS, this is going to be tough... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbriggs Posted February 7, 2010 Share Posted February 7, 2010 Ya, no doubt. Need to look at cam advance desired and actual pids. I beleive theres also an error degree pid. I had an 07 that was doing exactly what you describe. Ended up having a peice of the solenoid screen lodged in the solenoid, holding it open and causing the vct phaser to stay at full retard ( cam advanced) While performing the part of the pinpoint test that has you full feild the solenoid with batt votage and listen for action, it cleared itself. I found the piece of screen in the phaser upon later teardown. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nunan Posted February 7, 2010 Author Share Posted February 7, 2010 I agree its all pointing. Towards a phaser.how do I test them out withput an ids? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbriggs Posted February 8, 2010 Share Posted February 8, 2010 Should be able to see some of this stuff on a genesis, not to sure though, havent used one in almost ten years. I know we can on or snap on solus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nunan Posted February 8, 2010 Author Share Posted February 8, 2010 yea we can see some stuff on the genesys, but not much. I'm bringing it by my buddy who is gunna hook it up to his ids, and i'll go from there. thanks for all of the suggestions so far! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nunan Posted February 22, 2010 Author Share Posted February 22, 2010 swapped the fuel rail to the 04, same thing. we sent it out, i'm out of ideas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spdracer Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 I have ran into this before...If you disconnect a cam sensor and it runs good, then that bank is OUT OF TIME. Either a jumped chain or VCT related issue. I'd pull the valve cover and check timing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nunan Posted February 23, 2010 Author Share Posted February 23, 2010 but either cam sensor will cause it to do the same thing..thats why i didnt think it was a chain issue. but i could def see a vct issue, idk. we sent it out to a shop who has the time to diagnose it and the guy is paying us just for the motor..so wonderful to eat all that time because of someone elses shortcuts. wheres a jasper motor when u need one.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 wheres a jasper motor when u need one.. Where's a FAR engine when you need one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mchan68 Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 Originally Posted By: nunan wheres a jasper motor when u need one.. Where's a FAR engine when you need one! FAR FAR away!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nunan Posted February 23, 2010 Author Share Posted February 23, 2010 hopefully just as far as the shop thats workin on it lol. sucks trying to work on these trucks without an IDS.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fredsvt Posted February 24, 2010 Share Posted February 24, 2010 I'd rather be closer to a FAR than a Jasper. I can't imagine how much they could possibly fuck up a 3v 5.4. You should see how badly that they can screw up a 4R70W. Ugh! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixturbosix Posted February 24, 2010 Share Posted February 24, 2010 Had one do the very same thing.It would run with cam sensor unpluged.The pin in back of phaser had wobbled back and forth in cam slot till slot was twice as big and pin sideways in slot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nunan Posted February 24, 2010 Author Share Posted February 24, 2010 yeah i'm definately shooting towards the stupid phaser solenoid..but i'll see what they say. he didntw ant to replace them with new units from ford, cost too much money supposively... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nunan Posted February 24, 2010 Author Share Posted February 24, 2010 do the 06s and 04s have different cam profiles and different phaser positions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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