New info?

[Cetane]

For those who havent seen it already someone has leaked a powerpoint file containing info on the upcoming diesel. It is located on thedieselstop.com under the general diesel tab. Who knows what is true and what isnt but its the first piece of info I have seen on the net that looks real.......

[Keith Browning]

Thanx for the heads up!

 

I unfortunately do not have Power Point in my PC anymore but someone converted it to a PDF document and is sending it to those who ask. I'll post it when (or if) I get it.

[Keith Browning]

2007_PowerStroke.pdf (773kb)

 

And I don't see a copyright notice anywhere on that document. It looks like an uncontrolled document to me. Hmmm, I wonder If I will hear from Ford or International if I put this on the front page... /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/eek.gif

 

Looks like I was right with my guess about the Piezo injectors.

[cochran]

Yep, you guessed right. The 2007 will use Piezo common rail injectors.

[Mike Jeanotte]

Me and my service manager went to a 6.0l 5 hour refresher class. The instructor had the power point presentation that showed up on the web. He also has some extra info as he had just come back from Detroit. He talked about the DPF?? particulate filter in the exhaust he said the eng will go into an over fuel stragity to super heat the filter and clean itself out and later models may have an actual injecor in the exhaust to super heat and clean filter. The power point says that the 6.4l with be 90% cleaner that the 6.0l and in 2010 or 2012 the eng will have to be 90% cleaner again. There was a time study to remove the 6.4l with cab off it took 23 hours with cab on it took 40 hours. Sounds fun huh. He also said that several but not all dealers will be forced to buy an oven to clean the exhasut filter at a cost of around $16,000.

[Torqued_Up]

Its looking like the learning curve on this engine keeps getting more bends in it as we get closer. I think its a bad omen be talking about removing an engine thats not even in production yet and those numbers are pretty big for warranty so whats the REAL time going to be???

[HGM]

Its looking like the learning curve on this engine keeps getting more bends in it as we get closer. I think its a bad omen be talking about removing an engine thats not even in production yet and those numbers are pretty big for warranty so whats the REAL time going to be???

I'm learning more and more each year, that you take stuff like that with a grain of salt..I remember hearing that the Econoline belt would take 8hrs....Has anyone out there beat that time yet? Dont know, but I'm sure even as bad as it can be, you guys could beat the hell out of that..

 

The trucks I've seen were no doubt tight.. But 25-40hrs for engine R&R /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/confused.gif , I dont think so.. The evap isnt in your way anymore and the body bolts are all accessed from underneath.. I'd figure on about what it takes you on a 6.0L..

 

The technology is the area, we'll need to wory about.. Just keep up with it and make sure it makes sense.. And from a techs point of view, hope they arent perfect, need to have something to to...

[Keith Browning]

Quote:

The trucks I've seen were no doubt tight.. But 25-40hrs for engine R&R , I don't think so.. The evap isn't in your way anymore and the body bolts are all accessed from underneath.. I'd figure on about what it takes you on a 6.0L..

But Hey! If Ford is willing to pay 25-40 hours and it takes 20 I say it's payback time!!!

in all seriousness, I would rather not have to replace engines anymore. It's getting old. I would say that all of the new emissions equipment is what they are thinking is going to consume some time.

[Keith Browning]

He also said that several but not all dealers will be forced to buy an oven to clean the exhasut filter at a cost of around $16,000.

Oven? Clean the exhaust filter? Hmmmm. I like the idea of the "afterburner" but do you suppose that a cleaning procedure could be developed using a scan tool like IDS? Something like a clean cycle right in the bay.

 

Things to ponder... /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/popcorn.gif

[mpatron]

I heard mention of a cleaner a few months back, but I can't remember where. Regeneration is supposed to clean out the DPF, but perhaps in a severe case Ford will want it cleaned rather than replaced???

[Jay-D]

So how does this particulate filter work? is it anything like a cat converter or does it trap carbon and unburned fuel and burn it up. if thats the case why not call it an afterburner? i like that better /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/cool.gif

[Cetane]

Basically the DPF is just a filter/trap that holds particulates. When the PCM detects the filter is plugged, it starts the regen process(this can be accomplished a couple different ways). Assuming the regen process does a good job there is another issue - ash. Ash doesnt burn away like the soot does so it eventually plugs up the DPF requiring a more through cleaning. This is why you are hearing the rumors of possible oven purchases. I dont know if the rumor is true or not. That would probably be a good question for your FSE/zone reps.

[gasgasman]

Here\'s Detroit Diesel\'s version

 

Scroll down a bit to view.

[Brad Clayton]

excellent info.

[GregH]

Here's something I found on Ford's website in their message board section... Sorry for the poor formatting. I can't verify the source, of course, so take it with a grain of salt.

 

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6.4L P356 Overview Electrical New ECM: Integrates injector control ? separate FICM no longer required. Baro Sensor Internal to ECM. 80 V Injector control internal to ECM. ECM mounted in right upper bulkhead above engine. New ECM bracket/shield to meet Canadian anti-theft requirements. Separate Transmission Control Module (TCM) means that ECM only has two connections, and there is only one engine harness for both Automatic and Manual transmission. EBP and MAP Sensors are new, connector is carryover. CKP and CMP are carryover All temperature sensors with the exception of the IAT2 (manifold IAT) are carryover FRP fuel rail pressure sensor is NOT carryover EGCOT and EGCIT (Exhaust Gas Cooler Outlet/Inlet Temp) have different temperature ratings and are not interchangeable Glow Plug Control Module: Completely carryover from 6.0L. Heat shield that covers GPCM MUST be reinstalled after service. Glow plugs- draw ½ the current of previous applications.- new glow plug sleeve special service tool Glow plug buss bar: Separate harness for glow plugs only. Harness is outside the valve cover. Has integrated seal for both valve cover and glow plug well. Fuel injector release tool for interference-fit injector connectors: There is no release tab on the connectors to disconnect them. Injector connectors are under the valve cover. High Pressure Pump has separate jumper so PCV and VCV (Pressure/Volume Control Valve) can be probed without removal of heat shields. Engine Wiring Harness no longer contains fusible links for the GPCM. These are now fuses contained within the PDB. These circuits also run through the 12A581 harness as well as through the engine harness for the 6.4L. Harness has two "troughs" designed to house and guide main body of the wiring through the center of the engine area. Harness has "candy striping" to indicate injector circuits with HIGH VOLTAGE (80 V supply voltage, up to 200 V "flyback" voltage). Engine harness connects only to the primary alternator so there is only one service level of the harness for all vehicles. All retention points of the harness serve the purpose of routing the harness properly and keeping it away from components that can chafe, overheat or otherwise damage it. They MUST be reinstalled after service. New Scan Tool PID List Scan Tool Device Controls TURBOCHARGER Two Stage Variable Geometry-VTG Turbocharger (VTG) 1st stage fixed low pressure, 2nd stage VTG. Each turbo and actuator serviced separately. Electronically Controlled "Smart" Turbocharger Actuator VGT. Actuator uses Controller Area Network (CAN) Communication via ECM. Brushless DC Motor with Drive Gears Non-Contacting Position Sensor Diagnosis-Scan Tool Turbo Performance Check. Understand interaction of back pressure with DPF Lifting Tool-For proper precision when removing and installing turbo assembly. Also keeps proper alignment of the HP/LP turbo (must be used as it will create an exhaust leak between the two turbos) Turbo Lifting Bracket: Used to R&I turbo assembly with engine hoist while maintaining proper turbo orientation. FUEL SYSTEM Fuel Supply System (Low Pressure System) Larger ½ inch lines are used with a stand alone, cooling loop. Larger capacity water filtering in HFCM. ECM controlled Cooling Loop for new Fuel Return Flow Path-pump begins circulation at 10ºC, Engine cooling fan speed can be increased if fuel temp is above 70ºC. Engine power can be reduced if fuel temp is above 90ºC. Fuel Temp Sensor Location in fuel filter module Chassis to Filter fuel lines has a specific assembly procedure that must be followed Must use Evac fill system for the fuel cooling system (cooling loop) will not purge air naturally Filter to Pump installation must follow specific assembly procedure (rotate to engage properly) LP fuel test with IDS and VMM Filter to HP pump fuel line is critical for cleanliness High Pressure Common Rail (HPCR) Injection System New Fuel Injection System Components HP fuel pump and cover- no service on pressure and volume control valves- pump replacement only. HP fuel pump cover lower gasket with integrated electrical connector HP fuel pump cover upper gasket HP tubes (injector feed)- deformation seal-replace whenever serviced-torque plus angle tightening. HP tube (pump left) deformation seal-replace whenever serviced-torque plus angle tightening. HP tube (pump right) deformation seal-replace whenever serviced-torque plus angle tightening. Fuel Rail Assembly left Fuel Rail Assembly right Fuel Rail Pressure Sensor. (Located in right fuel rail.) Piezo actuated injectors. Specific service procedures- torque, o-rings and gasket. Piezo Injector Actuation Technology allows for multiple injection events and improves combustion for quieter operation. Injector wiring harness- has two larger 13 pin connectors at ends of rocker arm carriers. Performance Tests-Pressure sweep (26,000 psi) for High Pressure Fuel System leak Testing during service. Cleanliness of high pressure system is critical, use of fuel caps must be stressed whenever a high pressure tube or fuel supply line from filter to pump are removed. Do NOT reuse any high pressure fuel jumper tubes in the fuel system, this includes the tubes from the high pressure pump to rail and fuel rail to injector jumper High pressure jumper tube torque is critical to sealing integrity Diagnostics ? Turbo oil supply block off plug kit allows running of the engine with Turbo off to verify HPP or HPP lines repair integrity before complete reassembly of the engine. Special Service Tools-injector sleeve remover, injector sleeve installer (new injector design) fuel injector sleeve brush, fuel system caps, fuel injector cups, fuel injector connector disconnect tool, fuel line adaptor (fuel inlet and return lines diameter change) EXHAUST SYSTEM Up-pipes with new bellows/expansion joint design. ? Do not bend/twist bellows, assembly order is critical for EGR/Turbo-up pipe assembly ? oxidation catalyst in the EGR pipe EGR exhaust pipe bracket to the cylinder head is critical must be properly assembled and replaced for cooler function - The bracket on the EDOC pipe to the cylinder head must be replaced properly during reinstallation or the cooler will fail ASSEMBLY ORDER IS CRITICAL- assembly procedure minimizes assembly gaps and strain on bellows/expansion joints EGR Catalyst- Special Service Procedures- Fastener replacement upon removal. Exhaust Manifold ? do not reuse fasteners or gasket ? DO NOT mix 6.0L and 6.4L fasteners different material, different locking mechanism. Assembly sequence for manifold fasteners Downpipe Diesel Oxidation Catalyst (DOC) Active Diesel Particulate Filter (DPF) Resonator Tailpipe Aftertreatment System Significant Emissions Reduction DOC DPF ECM EGT Sensors Delta P Sensor Manual Regeneration-Customer Procedure EGR SYSTEM EGR is now used in over 80% of 6.4L engine operation modes to meet emissions requirements. Increased flow rates of EGR require 2 EGR Coolers to meet exhaust gas cooling requirements. The purpose of the EGR Catalyst is to improve performance and to reduce fouling of the EGR coolers. EGR Valve-New design of valve has features that promote self cleaning of the valve surfaces. EGR flow capacity is also increased. Valve is water cooled. EGR valve open/close force increased. EGR Valve Puller EGR Valve Puller: Assembled View EGR Valve Puller: Disassembled View EGR Catalyst-The location of the EGR catalyst is upstream of the two EGR coolers. It is integral and serviced with the left up-pipe. EGR Coolers 1(horizontal) and 2 (vertical)-Special Service Procedures for bracket and straps on both Coolers. EGR Coolers 1 and 2 ?Test Plates-block off tool tools for diagnosis. EGR Cooler Pressure Test Plates: Used to pressurize the EGR coolers to diagnose leaks. EGR Coolers 1 and 2 and EDOC pipe-must follow assembly procedure to prevent assembly gap and damaging strain to EGR bellow or exhaust piping bellows. The EDOC pipe bracket is critical for the durability of EGR cooler 1 without it the vibration and thermal growth can damage cooler 1. Exhaust Gas Cooler Inlet Temperature Sensor-Monitors EGR gas temperature into coolers. (located in right up- pipe) Exhaust Gas Cooler Outlet Temperature Sensor-Monitors EGR gas temperature out of coolers. Engine Assembly-Long block Crankshaft-Longer stroke and larger snout. Cylinder head-New injector configuration, no high pressure oil manifolds. Injector return passage through head. Rocker Arm Carrier-A thirteen pin electrical connector is located at the front of each carrier. Valve cover-Smaller because of lack of high pressure oil manifolds. Timing Cover-Incorporates two thermostats for more coolant volume. Also has connections for EGR coolers and heater core. Cooling System-40% increase in performance. Engine Assembly-Cooling and misc dUAL EGR COOLERS AND PLUMBING Plastic heater tubes/degas tube snap to connect radiator hose fittings new breather dual thermostates fuel cooling loop constant tension worm gear clamps (can not use standard worm gear)

 

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Wish I had the pictures to go with it, though....

[GregH]

Oh, and I might add that a few hours after the above was posted, the thread was deleted by their webmistress...

[Keith Browning]

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smirk.gif Maybe we should format your post and paste it in th thread... Where did that come from anyway? We should post it.

[GregH]

It came off of tech-to-tech on fmcdealer.com under the heading "new 6.4l information."

 

The whole thread and another related thread (both started by the same person) were deleted.

 

I don't recall who posted it, and my post was a verbatim copy of his entire post. There were no sources identified, and subsequent searches of the web turned up nothing of this sort. So, I dunno. Could be a load of crap, or it could be a copy of some internal memo or an early version of a service procedure...

[gasgasman]

Just go to the Texas State fair this weekend.

You'll get to see it up close.

[Keith Browning]

Anyone going? Bring a camera! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/thumbup.gif

[gasgasman]

There will be 10,000 people there fighting for a view.

Bring a lawn chair, kick back and enjoy the show.

[Cetane]

There are seven trucks being built for the fair. Hopefully all seven will make the trip. I am curious to hear what "y'all" think. In the past have spectators been allowed to get close or is it similar to an auto show where they are on a rotating turntable?

[Keith Browning]

Hopefully all seven will make the trip.

Do you mean that you hope they are finished in time for the fair or that you hope that they don't break down on the way? /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/shrug.gif Sorry if I sound cynical but that's all you seem to read right now with little official information circulating.

[Cetane]

I didnt mean it like that at all. They may only intend on taking 3 or 4 of them and are just going to pick the best ones from the lot. Not all of the trucks are diesel and I dont think any of them are optioned same so I think they will take them all but you never know.

[mpatron]

That document was sent out to some field personnel. I suggested showing it, but not handing it out. I guess somebody handed out copies anyway. I guess we do not have many Detroit area techs as members. When we were in Dearborn, we let the 6.0 Diesel class come over and take a look at the truck and engine and we answered some basic questions. So, do we have any Texas techs out there who went to the fair?