BrunoWilimek

I did some looking on the inford website and found a previous posting on the same concern. A dealer in New Brunswick had 2 Freestars doing the same thing and hotline was no help and he replaced the same parts as Mike's shop. Another tech posted a reply stating that the CHT sensor was mounted in a hot spot on the cylinder head and hotline told them to move it to a different hole(must have been a smarter hotline guy). The first tech tried it and it worked. Who woulda thunk it? /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/cheers.gif

You know, it never fails to amaze me what parts Ford says to replace on certain jobs. I can't count the number of times the shop manual says to replace a certain nut or bolt(prevailing torque)and I have gone to the parts department and had them look it up and found no stock anywhere at Ford, and no other dealers stocked it either. I think common sense and experience counts for something. I recently replaced the thermostats in a 6.4 diesel and negelcted to order the EGR cooler clamp. I couldn't see anything wrong with re-using it in this case. Also, we have been lifting cabs on pickup trucks from many years before Ford decided to make it "allowable" on the 08 Super duties. I just never claimed for it to avoid being charged back. If there is an easier way to do something that doesn't affect the reliability of the repair, then I say "go for it". /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/2cents.gif

Keep them coming guys. Lots of good ones. Here's one I saw many years ago. Shop rates $85/ hour. $95/ hour if you watch. $125/ hour if you help. $250/ hour if you try to fix it yourself first, then bring it in. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

Thanks, Bruce. I have read your reply to Mike(our old S.M.) and he is going to check those things out. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/thumbup.gif

I am helping out my former service manager with this concern. he now works at the other Ford dealer in town and has a customer with this problem. He called me when he had exhausted all his technicians ideas, as he knows I spen a lot of time on the pro-tech website. The Freestar has about 70,000km(40,000 miles) on it. Since hitting a deer and having the condensor replaced, it has this weird symptom. Only with the heater on full blast, the temperature guage momentarily climbs into the hot zone and then drops back down. This has been verified in the shop. ECT bears out the temperature is actually climbing. Thermostat and temp sensor have been replaced. All heat exchangers have been checked for obstructions and cleaned out as necessary. If heater is turned down to a more normal setting, this problem does not occur. Hotline is no help. Temperature PID shows around 240 F when problem occurs. The Service Manager wonders if the heater is drawing so much heat from the engine at maximum that it causes the thermostat to close prematurely, causing this symptom. Any thoughts on that, or any similar experiences? /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/scratchhead.gif

Better that you tried and it didn't work out, than not trying and forever wondering "what if". At least you don't have to change your location back on your postings, as you left it as Windsor. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/rockon.gif

We started to keep one in stock at all times, but now they are backordered and only available in an emergency and not expected to be restocked till next week(if they can keep up with the demand). /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crybaby2.gif

The problem of substandard work will not go away as long as the supply of qualified, educated techs who are willing to do their jobs to the best of their abilities keeps dwindling. Let's face it, there is much less incentive for young people to get into this trade than when guys my age started in it. Back then, my wage was 1/2 the door rate, which was $18/hour. Now my wage is close to 1/3. Most of the apprentices can only afford to go to school one day a week for many weeks instead of eight weeks straight like I did(3 times for 3 years). How much do they actually retain? We had one of our techs(a good one) move up? to the service manager's position in June, and have only been able to replace him just a week ago. There are just not that many available good techs out there. We had a lot of applications, but most of them were either prima-donnas(I want $35 per hour{we get less than $30} or I'm not going to send a resume), didn't have their own tools or were near retirement age or had no experience working on cars/trucks(small engine techs). I am not perfect by any means, but at least I try to learn from my mistakes/oversights. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/2cents.gif

Look Here: https://www.fleet.ford.com/truckbbas/non-html/Q157.pdf This website has all the information required, if not in this bulletin, then in some of the other ones. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/rockon.gif

To get an idea of what is involved in this swap, I went to the 2000 Excursion wiring diagrams and compared the California emissions schematic to the non-California schematic. The wiring from the top of the page to either the glow plug relay or the Califoria style Glow Plug Control Module is similar, so that should not present a problem. However, The PCM and wiring harness between the PCM and GPCM and to the glow plugs, as well as the GPCM would have to be available, say from a donor truck. I don't know if the glow plugs themselves are the same, and other things not readily obvious might be required as well. What would be the benefit if any of performing this operation, I would have to ask? The only thing that comes to mind is the ability to determine from DTC's which, if any glow plugs were dead. Maybe more reliable also, but at what price? /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/2cents.gif

The gold coolant is supposed to be a long-life coolant, but lo-and-behold, once you change the original gold coolant, the coolant change interval drops down to the same as the green stuff. The reason for this is they assume you will be using tap water. If you opt for distilled water, the longer interval would still hold.

Nah. Just a realist. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/thumbup.gif

I don't know if it will help, but seems like you have tried just about everything else. We had an 05 F350 that had the same symptom after head gasket replacement. After working with hotline and many hours into it, the tech finally tried four injectors.(one bank) It was a lot better, so he replaced the other four and it was fixed. Seems he decided to clean the carbon off the ends of the injector nozzles with a rotating wire brush. They looked like new when he was done, but obviously he must have plugged some of the jets. As the original repair was done by another shop, this may be difficult to verify for you, but could well be the cause. Unfortunately, this happened so long ago that I don't remember any of the pids that we used to determine the injectors were at fault. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/2cents.gif

Hey Keith! Your avatar is making faces at me. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/surprise.gif

I am not now, or likely in the future thinking of getting a diesel truck. I would, however, take a 6.0 over a 6.4 any day. There are some interesting videos on u-tube from a guy who claims to be able to fix them up better than new. His website is http://www.powerstrokehelp.com and one of his videos can be seen at I don't know him or exactly what he does to the 6.0 other than head studs, but he does have a point on the 6.0, that once you fix all the known failure points, you can have a reliable engine that will last for a long time. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/2cents.gif

I looked up the pinpoint test for that code and here are the results: Possible causes: Iac circuit shorted to ground, Intake air leak after throttle body, Vacuum leaks, Damaged evap system, EGR valve leaks vacuum. Without doing the PPTest, I can't fault your diagnosis, but suspect there is unmetered air getting in from somewhere. Did you try disconnecting and plugging the evap hose?

It is in the PCED in the Hard Start/No Start Diagnostic Proceedures before the Air Pressure Check test. There is a note that says "An air leak on the high pressure oil pump shaft lip seal is normal while carrying out this proceedure. This is not an indication of a high pressure oil leak and the high pressure pump should not be replaced for this condition. Note: The replacement parts may leak if all the surfaces are not oil saturated under system pressure and the seals are not properly seated during installation." That having been said, I had a bad pump that leaked furiously at the seal and after I replaced it, the new one did not. I think the second note is just as important in that the seal needs to have oil saturation in order to be properly evaluated. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/2cents.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/rockon.gif

Google "F150 diesel" and you will find lots of info about it. The last I heard, it was cancelled, but with high fuel prices, maybe it will be revived. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/shrug.gif

Good for you, Greg. I applaud your morals. It may very well have come back to bite you. I had an 05 Explorer in this summer for a service #1. I noted on the QC 500 sheet that the antifreeze was low and suspected the rad as we have had several others with leaking rads. The customer also mentioned that the left rear power window quit working. The truck had 65,000 km on it(3 year 60,000km is the warranty period here in Canada). The customer is a local dental surgeon and a bit of a whiner, so the service manager decided to do him a favour and back up the mileage on the r.o. When the customer came to pick up his truck, he was real /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/mad.gif He yelled at the S.M., even though the S.M. was trying to do him a favour and it wasn't going to cost him anything. You couldn't reason with this jerk. The S.M. tried to calm him down and told him to call Ford's customer assistance number, but he swore it was our dealership that was "Ford" to him and he only wanted to deal with us. I was on vacation when he returned and another tech installed the rad and window motor, and using the same r.o., claimed it as a warranty claim, having crossed of the typed actual mileage and writing it in at 59,795km. When it was entered into the system by the warranty clerk, Ford asked for a photocopy of the front and back of the original hard copy of the r.o. Warranty WAS denied due to: no mention of any warranty concerns on the original r.o., the mileage being crossed out and written in, and our dealership ended up eating the whole repair and we may now be possibly getting audited, all for a jerk of a customer who didn't even appreciate our efforts. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/banghead.gif Moral of the story? Don't try to bite the hand that feeds you, as it may bite back. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/hitthefan.gif

You would need a donor truck to make the swap easier, as there are wiring harnesses, the fuel delivery module, fuel lines, fuel tank, etc., etc., that are different from the 7.3 to the 6.0. A donor truck with a good frame would be even better, as you would only have to mess with a cab and box swap, and all that entails, but that's only my /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/2cents.gif

I remember reading somewhere about plugging in the block heater as the leak is more likely to show up if the engine is hot. I can't remember if it was for the 7.3 or the 6.0, but likely will help in either case. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

This is the proceedure, directly from the 08 PCED, as directed from pinpoint test step ME9. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/readthis.gif Fuel System Leak Test Alternate Procedure: Note: Additional DTCs may result during this procedure. Bank 1 Bank 2 Cylinder 1 (YES/NO) Cylinder 2 (YES/NO) Cylinder 3 (YES/NO) Cylinder 4 (YES/NO) Cylinder 5 (YES/NO) Cylinder 6 (YES/NO) Cylinder 7 (YES/NO) Cylinder 8 (YES/NO) Key in the OFF position. Remove the right hand and left hand valve covers. Refer to the Workshop Manual Section 303-01, Engine, Valve Cover. Release the fuel pressure. Refer to the Workshop Manual Section 310-00 Fuel System, for the Fuel System Pressure Release — Diesel Engine procedure. Disconnect the 15 pin in-line connector on the left hand valve cover harness. Disconnect the 15 pin in-line connector on the right hand valve cover harness. Disconnect all the fuel injector connectors. Refer to the Workshop Manual Section 303-04, Fuel Charging and Controls. Remove all the fuel injector supply tubes, fuel injector hold down clamp assemblies and the fuel injectors. Refer to the Workshop Manual Section 303-04, Fuel Charging and Controls. Assemble the fuel injectors to the fuel rail using the used fuel injector supply tubes. Position the fuel injectors so the fuel nozzle and drain hole are visible. Install the Fuel Injector Cups 303-1261 or equivalent to the fuel injectors to contain any side spray from the fuel nozzles. Key ON, engine OFF. Crank the engine for 10 seconds. Check for fuel injectors that are leaking fuel from the fuel nozzles or drain holes. Key in the OFF position. Install a new fuel injector for any identified fuel injectors that are leaking fuel from the fuel nozzles or drain holes. Refer to the Workshop Manual Section 303-04, Fuel Charging and Controls. Remove the Fuel Injector Cups 303-1261 or equivalent from the ends of the fuel injectors. Install all the fuel injectors. Install new fuel injector supply tubes, O-rings and combustion washers for all fuel injectors that were removed. Refer to the Workshop Manual Section 303-04, Fuel Charging and Controls. Reassemble the engine. Bleed the high pressure fuel system. Refer to the Workshop Manual Section 310-00 Fuel System for the Fuel System Bleeding — High Pressure, Diesel Engine procedure. If no leaks are present, the oil overfull condition may have been caused by normal diesel particulate filter regeneration cycles. Refer to Section 3, No Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTCs) Present Symptom Chart Index , Chart 8. Possible Causes: Damaged fuel injector Fuel lines Fuel rail Tools Required: Scan tool Fuel Injector Cups 303-1261 or equivalent /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/readthis.gif I have not done the proceedure. As I stated previously, you can do one bank first, as you have a 50% chance of getting the correct one the first time and less labour involved, if the first one is the charm. I liked the "easier" way of doing it as it worked for me- removing the glow plugs, disconnecting the main injector connectors at the front of both heads and watching for white fog. The only pita was the connectors were designed by a frikking retard and were a real pos to disconnect. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/2cents.gif

Sorry, Keith, I was talking about the one I did, not yours. I hope yours is fixed as well after the other parts are replaced. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/thumbup.gif

I had one that was a no start with low ICP(only around 1400 psi, if memory serves correctly). I called hotline and a sharp engineer mentioned the injector test you tried(upside down and hooked up with the old fuel lines-to test them only). He added that you could do one bank first(a 50-50 chance of getting the correct bank the first time). Before attempting this though, he had a less invasive way to narrow down the faulty injector. Remove all the glow plugs and have an assistant crank the engine while you watch for white fog at the glow plug hole. That will narrow it down to a cylinder(s). The reason for doing this is that the 6.4 injectors have a return passage that the fuel leaks to internally in the injector. Because of the extremely low pressure due to the internal leak, the pintle allows a small amount of fuel to leak past it, thus pinpointing the faulty injector. Keith could bypass this test because he was able to get a power balance reading to narrow it down to cylinder #6. After replacing the faulty injector, the truck has not been back for any further concerns. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

I agree 100%. Maybe the price savings comes at the Ford level(the price they pay, not the retail price). /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/scratchhead.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/icon_crazy.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/hahaha.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/ford.gif