Jeff_E

You are what we call a "bung practitioner" now!

Yes you're right, thanks Keith.

Upon further inspection this one has coolant in the oil and the timing slipped. New long block is on the way.

Hey guys, I have one of these new gas powered E-Series ambulances that is knocking and missing on what feels like several cylinders, but IDS isn't able to do a power balance or relative comp test, I keep getting error messages.  I know on some of the older ambulances there was a wire that was supposed to be disconnected in order to perform some scan tool tests, but I don't know what the procedure was, or if it's even the same for these.  Anybody know?

That is a beautiful article Keith, I'm glad I could contribute. nice job!

I third the motion!

thank you!

EGT Bung replacement process:

Step 1 - Obtain a couple replacement EGT bungs here: 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/OE-style-exhaust-gas-temp-EGT-sensor-bung-for-Ford-Powerstroke-Diesel-6-4-6-7L-/141039388416?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item20d69a4700&vxp=mtr

Leave the ebay seller positive feedback because it's the classy thing to do, and we DTS members are classy people.

Step 2 - Break an egt sensor off in it's bung.

Step 3 - Since the repair you are doing here is saving your customer thousands of dollars over DPF replacement. Feel free to Have your parts department pay you cash for one of the replacement EGT bungs in your toolbox with a profit margin for yourself large enough to buy Chipotle for lunch, before having them bill it out on the work order.  If the customer knew how much money you are saving them, they would certainly agree that you deserve Chipotle today!

Step 4 - Heat the damaged EGT bung with an acetylene torch till it glows bright orange, then twist it off with a pipe wrench.

Step 5 - Close the valves on the torch, put it away for the next time, and admire the hole you just made.

Step 6 - Grind away surface rust to prep for welding, de-greasing the new bung would be a good idea too as they come with a thin coating of rust inhibitor.

Step 7 - Position the new EGT bung.

Step 8 - Weld the new EGT bung in place.

Step 9 - Install a new sensor.

Step 10 - Admire your work, and pat yourself on the back for having already had a replacement EGT bung in your toolbox and not getting caught with your pants down.  Feel good knowing you just saved your customer a ton of money and down time...  And you got a world class burrito out of the deal.

You can get new bungs for these on Ebay

http://www.ebay.com/itm/OE-style-exhaust-gas-temp-EGT-sensor-bung-for-Ford-Powerstroke-Diesel-6-4-6-7L-/141023578451?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item20d5a90953&vxp=mtr

Thanks Keith, that's just what I was looking for. Our dealer just replaced the shop owned IDS laptops and we have been looking for that

I went through a similar deal with one of these. In my case, the customer absolutely denied two footing it but said it still exhibited that symptom. There were no codes, and I never personally verified it, but the customer bitched enough to get our FSE involved and have a fancy blue engineering flight recorder installed in it for a while. The FSE then spent a day on it, and eventually, after talking to the boys in Detroit a few times, found out the TCM software wasn't at the latest level... Even though we reflashed it when we did the recall.

It seems there was a problem with the IDS software at the time (which now may or may not be corrected,) that would cause it to update the PCM, and say it updated the TCM without actually doing so. After performing PMI on the TCM, the customer then seemed satisfied.

I then asked our FSE if the guys at Ford ever consider beta testing things before releasing them to us. His response was "You guys ARE our beta-testers."

To the best of my knowledge (for what it's worth) the only change was to eliminate the brass quick connection in the front that they used at the factory for something. The 05 cover should work just fine. I usually have a pre-rebuilt oil cooler standing by for the next trifecta job I do, and I've never had issues with oil cooler cover interchange... And I'm sure I've ended up putting some 05 cooler covers on some 04 trucks and haven't had a problem.

Yup, the 03-04 HP pumps have a ball staked in them to block off a passage. It sounds like yours was ejected and you'll need a new HP pump. I've seen this before... It's on the inlet side of the HP pump so you'll never find a problem by air testing, but it sure drops low oil pressure when this happens.

Ah thank you gentlemen!

I made that Xtranormal gem over a year ago. I first emailed it to my younger brother who still lives at home. When he saw it, he was laughing so hysterically that my mom had to come investigate what had him in stitches. He was happy to show her what her oldest demon spawn had created... She was less amused by it than he, but not surprised in the least

Hey Aaron, glad you're back!

6 months ago I did Black Onyx gaskets with ARP's in an Excursion that belongs to another tech I work with. They blew again already, and I don't think it's the ARP's at fault either.

+1 on OE head gaskets with ARP studs as being the best bet. I've never had that combo have a repeat failure, but I have had a few repeat failures using stock bolts.

Wouldn't be a bad idea to see if the lifter for that valve can be removed, or if the cam lobe that pushes it is in good shape too.

I recently had a P1211 resulting from a restricted oil pickup tube in the pan from silicone chunks from a recent oil pan job. If you have an oil pressure gauge, install it in the HP Reservoir plug and road test the truck until the problem happens. This will rule out whether or not your hp pump is starving for oil.

It may be worth a-b-a swapping the MAP sensor from a known good truck to see if yours is bias. On a few occasions, new MAP sensors fixed these for me after I had exhausted all of the normal causes to no avail.

Another thought would be to put a new fuel pressure regulator in it. It seems like the new blue spring gives them a little extra power too.

Yeah, and It would have been nice if the other dealer had done the oil pan reseal by the book (engine removal) instead of doing it in vehicle and letting who knows how much silicone loose in the pan. It would have saved the customer and myself a lot of time and money. Oh well, if nothing else we have added some depth to this thread so the next guy who does a search for P1211 on this site will have some more info.

Would you look at the time... It's Beer:30 already. Thanks for the help fellas

Well, it wasn't so bad. The owner was pretty understanding, and today I found out another dealer has had the pan off of this truck 3 times prior in attempts to fix external oil leaks, so I'm pretty sure there's silicone plugging up the pickup tube, but the guy didn't want to put any more money in his truck today so we're giving him a discount on the parts and labor we have in it, and he seemed ok with that.

I just feel unsatisfied that after all that effort I didn't accomplish much more than to drain a guys wallet. I keep telling myself next week will be better... We'll see.

well, this morning I moved the oil pressure gauge to the plug in the side of the filter housing and road tested it. My initial oil pressure on a cold start was 48 psi, but as it warmed up that number got lower. Under increased rpm, the gauge ticks upward initially, but then climbs downward. I was unable to view the screen section of the pickup tube through the drain plug, so the engine needs to come out and the oil pan needs to come off to see what's going on. I just gave the writer the bad news.

I sense a shit storm coming... The likes of which I haven't seen in quite some time now.

Stay tuned...

Mine doesn't stall, after driving for a few miles on the freeway and try to do a hard acceleration when you're already doing about 75mph it will bog down as the IPR ramps up to 65% and set a P1211. I did notice some injector ticking after this happens too.

This is the first time this truck has been to my dealer, but I will definitely have a look at that oil pan on Monday. I'll stick the oil pressure gauge in the main oil galley and see whats going on there too. I would have thought the oil light would come on if there were a problem there, but now that I think about it, I suppose lube oil pressure could be high enough not to trip the light, but low enough to cause a problem feeding the reservoir. I think one of the other techs even has a borescope that would fit through the drain plug hole.

Thanks Bruce, I was starting to run out of ideas

Oh believe me I don't wanna go back to this thing, but if I dont it will just be waiting for me Tuesday with an even more pissed customer. I gotta man up eventually, Monday is as good a day as any.

On a long shot if you still have the injectors out, run your finger into the holes and see if the injector o-rings have worn a groove into the cast iron injector holes. I've only seen this a couple of times with similar problems reported- leaking o-rings even when new. Diag is to run it with the VC off, ground the IPR, and look for leaks but this is a bitch on an E-van.

 

Ah crap, they are all back in, and by all, I mean all 8. After resealing all 4 in the left bank I road tested it and the problem persisted, even though the upper o-ring in #2 had deterioration that looked like a dummy plug o-ring in a 6.0, so I resealed all 4 on the right bank too, but those 4 all looked ok anyway. Before I put the right vc back on I let it run up to operating temp and then full fielded the IPR while jumping the starter with the key off. I didn't see anything abnormal, so I put the Right VC back on and road tested it - Still will set a mil with P1211 when accelerating over 75mph. It bogs down somewhat when it happens... A noticable lack of power, but still drivable enough to get back to the shop without anyone on the road thinking anything is wrong. Monday I will probably have to take the left VC back off and try full fielding the IPR to see if anything happens.

 

Your Hotline test is accurate but still isn't checking for leaks at high ICP which is where your problem is. It's possible to have no leakage at 1500rpm (what's your ICP at this point, under 1500PSI, right?) but HAVE leakage at WOT/load where the desired ICP is 3000ish. Keep this in mind during your diag. Leaking injector O-rings is a huge pattern failure which could easily be your problem, even with the test results reported.

 

Do you think it would be safe to full field the IPR with both valve covers off and the engine running? I'm a little hesitant to try, but I think you're right about it only leaking at very high ICP. The thing that worries me though is it doesn't do it right away. I have to drive it for a few miles before it will do this, so I'm wondering if maybe the HP reservior isn't being replenished fast enough. I never see the oil light come on, but I tried hooking up a low pressure oil gauge in to the reservior plug and noticed that pressure in the reservior does tend to drop to just about nothing under load. I don't know whether or not that's considered normal as there isn't a published spec for HP reservior pressure, and I haven't tried this on a known good truck. I'm almost starting to wonder if maybe there's something wrong with the LP pump or oil pickup tube???

 

IIRC your HPOP and IPR are both new. Did you try another ICP for S&G? I'm thinking the HPOP is starving for oil on the low end or the upper injector o-rings are leaking. What is your IPR at a hot idle? 9-11% is normal with both heads hooked up.

 

The HPOP is brand new, the IPR is a swapped used one, the ICP is a brand new one on loan from our parts dept. Hot idle IPR is usually around 9.3%

 

I think someone on DTS used a Porto-Power to pressurize the head feeds (engine off) to identify hydraulic leaks (ICP).

 

Hmmmm... We have a porto-power... I wonder If I can adapt it to the icp fitting (thinking to myself).

 

Let us know how you make out.

 

I'm sure I'll have more to say on Monday about this. This is going to be one of those weekends when I don't sleep very well. I need to learn not to take my work home with me.