Jeff_E

Well it's fixed!!! It seems that when you have about 50% gasoline in your diesel fuel it causes the fuel tank pickup strainer to fall apart and start sucking air. If I didn't have sinus polyps I'm sure that I would have smelled the gasoline. Never thought that handicap would screw me, but this time it did. The little orange plug fell out of my brand new sender and the entire black housing was loose on the tube. When I assembled it both were tight, but the gasoline must make them swell or dissolve enough to come apart. The original sender had the same orange plug laying at the bottom of the tank, but on that one, so was the entire black housing shown in the pic. It's all together with fresh diesel and running great now. Thanks guys!

It has more than a quarter tank which I verified visually when I replaced the sender

Yeah, I think you're right Bruce. bypassed the tank and 2 lines rear of the hfcm with rubber hoses and a fuel bucket and it pretty much clears up short of a small stream of "champagne bubbles". when I hook the tank lines back up to the hfcm I get white foam. It's my quitting time now, I'll pick this up again monday.

New HFCM - Still aerates. Time for a break

Clear line test FAIL. Thanks Bruce, I'll keep you guys posted...

Never thought I'd see the day after all I've been through, but I've got a feisty one now. 05 6.0 pickup owned by a local body shop comes in with the codes cleared. (they have already been in it). It is obviously missing on several cyliders and even stalled while pulling it in the shop. It feels like a fuel issue, and since I dont have any codes I decide to hook up the rotunda fuel pressure tester. I find the pressure at around 44 psi with the valve open, but I also notice a huge amount of air bubbles. I do the baloon test - Pass. I command the fp on with the engine off and it still aerates badly. I check the filters - dirty so I replace them. still aerates. I run the lines at the rear of the pump into a bucket of fuel and the aeration seemed to stop - or at least improve, so I pull the tank down and low and behild the pickup screen asy fell off and the pieces were laying at the bottom of the tank. All proud of myself for finding what seems to be a root cause, I put together a 2 part estimate for the customer: Part 1. Fuel delivery system repairs with new sending unit, filters, and regulator. Part 2. An estimate to replace all injectors incase they were damaged as a result of the aforemetioned. Customer approved part 1 and I performed it. Vehicle still ran like shit. Called customer back and they ok'd all 8 injectors which appeared to all be bad on the power balance, as relative compression was ok. I spent all mornig replacing all 8 injectors and my problem still persists. I get a horrible power balance while running, but relative compression is ok. fuel still seems to aerate slightly while running but I don't know if that is just residual air clearing out or not. My pids seem ok except load which is irratic at idle jerking between 55 and 80%. ICP seems a little high at idle at around 960. I swapped in a known good icp and ipr just for shits but no change. I also thought perhaps the ficm is messing up even though MPWR is around 48V and the buzz test passes, so I swapped a known good FICM but no change. Getting the customer to authorize what I have already done was like pulling teeth, and I don't want to call them back until I have an explination for my woes. Any help would be appreciated guys. ~Jeff

...And with the spinning thing that evenly distributes the urea, I guess it's safe to say there is such a thing as "muffler bearings" now too. I guess all that's left to create now is "blinker fluid" and then pretty much everything Rex has ever told a customer will have some truth.

Assuming it's a pickup and not a van... Hard/no start diag 6005E .6 Oil pressure test 6600B .3 Air pressue test 6005E48 .3 IPR test 6005F22 .1 HP oil pump test 6005E49 .3 Rocker cover R and I (both) 6584AT 2.6 UVC leak test 6005E50 .3 Pin point test 6005F45 .3 Dummy plug (1) 6584A10 .1 Dummy plug (2) 6584A10T .2 Branch tube 9332B: Auto trans 11.4 Auto Dually 11.5 Manual trans 11.0 Manual Dually 11.1 Any unforseen problems MT092216 Actual Time per TSB

Perhaps we can at least avoid becoming pro bono piss monkeys. I have already talked to my SM about the unique aspects of 6.7 maintenance and advised him to formulate a new menu price for a 6.7 lof including reductant replenishment and recommended the labor be 1.0 for the whole shebang. The added cost of the reductant is going to cause them to make an adjustment in the menu pricing anyway for the 6.7... I figured I would plant this seed in his mind before he finalized it and sent out flyers without giving any thought to the added effort involved by the flat rate tech. He's a good guy, but I've found that salaried members of middle management can often forget that those of us who actually fix these things aren't salaried - our entire paycheck depends on billable hours produced. I don't know about you guys, but I feel my efforts have value.

Quote: So you don't fill washer bottles for free? I do enough charity like washer fluid, wiper replacements, multi point inspections, tire pressure adjustments, free rotations if the customer bought tires from us, and air filter replacements. Perhaps this has made me somewhat cynical, but I will not be handling urea for free on top of everything else. Especially when I'm only paid .4 (24 min) for a lof that includes most of the aforementioned items. It's already a losing proposition when I get a lof at my dealer. If the customer doesn't want to pay extra to have me fill it, I can direct them to the retail parts counter. Customers know how to fill their washer fluid too, I think they can figure this out. Far be it from me to discourage anyone who wants to do this for free from doing so.

the 2.5 gallon jug lists for $19.95 USD So if the reservoir holds 5 gallons it adds $40 in parts to an already spendy lof. And you had better believe I'm not filling them for free, so the labor is gonna jump accordingly too

I've seen a similar concern twice on 6.0 pickups where a trans problem was actually causing no throttle response, almost like some kind of protection strategy - albeit too late. I have asked hotline about this and they had no idea about it. In my own research I found this in the pced which may explain which strategy is getting screwd by the slipping trans: Quote: AT: FICM Circuit Fuel Delivery Error Introduction AT: Pinpoint Tests -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Signal function The diesel engine power monitor (DEPM) strategy resides in the transmission control module (TCM) located inside the powertrain control module (PCM). The function of the DEPM is to monitor engine RPM when there is no power demand from the accelerator pedal position (APP) sensor. Under normal engine idle operation, the DEPM RPM value must always be higher than engine RPM. In the event that the engine RPM does exceed the DEPM limit, the DEPM will disable the crank and cam output signal sent by the PCM to the fuel injection control module (FICM). Whether this is what is getting confused or not, I still believe your best bet is to attack the transmission problem first. In both of the ones I saw do this I chased my tail trying to figure out the no throttle response, when actually that was a symptom, not the cause. As far as your speedo concern, I don't remember that, so quite possibly you're dealing with another concern too. The 04 Torqshift was notorious for reverse planetary problems that would fill the trans with metal and seize the solenoids, there was even a recall 04B24 on it for a while but is now expired. That just means Ford is done paying for a known problem. I've also seen the visctronic fan clutches short out and cause trans concerns, but usually they won't crank when that happens due to an inaccurate TR reading. It wouldn't hurt to unplug the fan clutch and try before you do anything else. Sounds like the tranny has to come apart anyway with as much as it has been slipping, you might as well start there. And don't forget to replace the cooler and flush the lines when you're done, and think really hard before reinstalling the old converter if you do find metal.

Well guys, I’m looking for your input on how you generally go about repairing an increasingly more common issue. More specifically – how much to repair… I had a 6.0 truck come in a while ago running like crap due to a failed injector that allowed cylinder pressure in the fuel system. I did the bubble test, and even removed the lines at the filter housing one at a time to isolate which bank it was coming from. There were a ton of bubbles from the right bank, and absolutely none from the left bank. This vehicle was out of warranty, and I recommended replacing all 4 right bank injectors. The repair was approved, and I replaced all 4 injectors, as well as filters and a regulator to return fuel pressure to spec. After the repair, I re ran the bubble test and fuel pressure which passed with the fancy Rotunda 6.0 fuel pressure tester. Customer took the vehicle and everything was good, or so it seemed. A week later, the vehicle came back missing on 2 LEFT bank cylinders from damaged injectors. Fuel pressure under load and bubble tests passed. Obviously those injectors were also damaged from the prior fuel aeration condition, but they didn’t present themselves as problematic at the time of the repair. My questions to you: Should I change my practice on customer pay repairs of replacing injectors only on the bank that failed the balloon test, and start recommending the replacement of ALL injectors whenever that happens? Or is this an odd ball situation that you guys haven’t ever run in to? I don’t want to under-repair or over-repair these things, especially when they are customer pay. This experience has introduced me to an entire new "gray area" for which your thoughts would be appreciated.

I really hate seeing multiple injectors fail without identifying a root cause. If there is no combustion bubbles in the fuel, and pressure under full load is normal, I suppose another possibility, though less likely is metal contamination from a failing hp pump. It may be worth pulling the oil filter and looking really carefully for tiny shavings of metal. Another thought... I had one once that beat me up because the fuel delivery system checked out normally the way the customer brought it in, but when I switched to the other fuel tank, the pressure dropped to 20 due to a kinked line. That one got some SPW injectors, but I'll never forget it.

Better do the modified "baloon" test as per Keith's article CLICK HERE

Go on a hard road test, then let it cold soak overnight, next morning before you try starting it remove the secondary fuel filter and see if the filter housing is empty. If it is, you have an air leak somewhere allowing the housing to drain and causing a big air bubble to go through the hp pump. Hotline told me a common place for this is the fittings at the HP pump, but I was lucky and just had a dry fuel filter lid o-ring that a lot of vaseline took care of. I also had a couple 6.4's gel last week. They only seem to gel in the primary filter housing which sucks to get to thanks to that wonderful wiring harness on the frame.

If I remember right, that's the spot where the oil/fuel filter housing overhangs and gets in the way, thus no bolt.

The socket I just grabbed out of my box that I think I used on my last F250 of that generation is a 2 3/4 inch thinwall hub socket OTC #6796 CLICK HERE

So Eloquent Tony And entirely true... Especially your part about the campaign finance situation being the root of all evil regardless of which party we're from. We seriously need political campaigns to be funded entirely with tax dollars. Any candidate who gets enough signatures on a petition to run should get federal funding - the same amount as everyone else who gets the qualifying number of signatures. That way they all get to purchase equal air time to take their message to the people, and it would save all of us from putting up with a 8 month news cycle covering nothing but the upcoming election. This is the only way to remove corporate and special interest money from buying our politicians, not to mention the money taxpayers would save from not having those interests influencing congress would more than cover the expense of doing this. Hell, it may even give us more of a choice at the polls than just choosing the lesser of 2 viable evils. I also think members of congress and federal judges should be paid the median US wage as determined annually by the non-partisan Congressional Budget Office. Maybe then they will formulate a tax matrix that actually benefits normal working class people, but that is for another rant. Though I hate to admit it, I'm anticipating that I will be seriously disappointed in President Obama tomorrow because supposedly he is about to announce a big troop surge in Afghanistan. My fear is that it will become, or already has become a modern day Vietnam that won't actually make us any safer, and certainly will take resources from our children to feed the war profiteers. Though I'm sure he knows this, I'm afraid the decision he makes will be influenced by his desire not to be called "soft on terrorism" by his opponent in the next election, and by teabaggers in general. I pray I'm wrong, but either way, I hope that if we stay in Afghanistan we at least find a way to actually pay for it so we're not mortgaging our children's future anymore than we already have over this ordeal.

On a lighter note in this epic struggle between Liberalism and Conservatism, it has come to my attention that Rex just banned PowerStroker on Auto Trend

Sorry to hear that Aaron. Is there a treatment or surgery that can fix it???

It actually does sound like Rex. I think you handled it perfectly Larry.

Hotline really sucks sometimes

Any update on this one Stephen?

I've never seen a turbo fill a crankcase with exhaust, but I've seen pistons do it. There's no prior approval necessary to yank a head off a 6.4 If you feel the urge, You might find nothing, or you may save yourself from taking it apart twice. It seems you've done your diagnostics according to a very logical path, and now you're at a point where a judgment call is all that remains. Side note - A warranty auditor will tell you it doesn't matter what hotline tells you. They're going to bounce the claim either way. Sorry Brad