BLittle500 Posted February 11, 2010 Share Posted February 11, 2010 Hey guys, got a truck in from another shop that they couldn't figure out. I had a little time to look at it yesterday but no work today with all of this snow. It's an '04 late build, automatic, no power up off the line, but runs ok once you get it up and moving. Last shop put on: Ford Reman Turbo, "known good" IPR Valve, New VGT solenoid, and an EGR Delete kit just for good measure. I checked codes first, just EGR flow codes (due to the delete). I then checked for good fuel, ok. Fuel pressure stays steady at 50 PSI. It had a new lube sticker on it but I pulled the oil filter anyway, it was a NAPA filter jammed under a ford cap, the filter was clogged all to high hell. Replaced the filter, oil looked clean (who forgot the filter?). Truck passed a boost test and a VVT Test (did this before I found out that the other shop just threw that turbo on). Checked for exhaust restriction per the WSM, came up with 30psi @ 3800RPM and max spec is 35psi. ICPV checks out per Bruce's specs. Checked air filter for intake restriction, new filter in it and not packed with snow or anything. I did notice that there was some slime coming up the breather tube, and some down in the valve cover, it just looks like condensation. I ran a crank case pressure test, it was well below the max spec. Power balance looks good, injectors all drop out nice and even. Relative compression looked good. I'm at a loss here guys, where else should I check? Thanks again, Brandon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrbudge Posted February 11, 2010 Share Posted February 11, 2010 If the turbo is truly ok (don't the new heat treated cra's have issues right out of the box?) the overrunning clutch on the stator may be slipping and not allowing torque multiplication at stall. Once the convertor couples it will be ok. Rare but not unheard of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLittle500 Posted February 11, 2010 Author Share Posted February 11, 2010 When power braking this truck it doesnt do squat. It just sits there and SLOWLY brings the RPM's up to only about 1250RPM, it doesnt even try to jerk the truck around. But the truck seems to rev fine out of gear, maybe leading to a trans concern like you said? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted February 11, 2010 Share Posted February 11, 2010 What is the IPR% and LOAD% at hot idle? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Amacker Posted February 11, 2010 Share Posted February 11, 2010 What is the IPR% and LOAD% at hot idle? +1 I'd unplug the ICP/MAP individually and try it on the long shot they're biased. I'm thinking along the lines of a torque converter, too. I've seen it (only) several times in my life and it's just like you explain- revs fine in neutral, sluggish as hell from 0-15 and pulls fine after that. The last one had the splines stripped off the stator support(?) when you pulled the TC off the tranny. It was a real A-HA! moment when we pulled it. I wonder if you pulled the tranny pan if there would be shavings present? I'm not sure what RPM a 6.0 should power brake to, but I'd compare a known good truck with yours back-to-back. Good Luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLittle500 Posted February 11, 2010 Author Share Posted February 11, 2010 IPR is hanging around 26%, and Load is 33% I dont know squat about transmissions, apparently not much more about 6.0's either, so I ran it past our transmission guy, he's thinking along the lines of a T/C as well. Thanks again, Brandon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mchan68 Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 Just curious. But is the engine oil overfilled by chance? Sorry to be asking such a stupid question. But I vaguely recalled a truck I had a few years back that came in for a maintenance #3 that went to another tech in the shop. It was right after the maintenance was done, was when the truck arrived back on MY doorstep with the lack of power complaint. It turned out, the servicing tech forgot to drain the old oil out of the engine, before refilling with 15 litres of the NEW oil. That one pulled my hair out for a good while. I never forgot the shit kicking I took on that job!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLittle500 Posted February 12, 2010 Author Share Posted February 12, 2010 I was reading back through some older posts and ran across you saying about checking for over full oil, that was one of the first things I checked and it was OK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mbl35 Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 Late build 04 has a throttlebody? Had a few 04s with similar issues though they had tbody dtc's. I unplug the tbody and plenty of power off the line and all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLittle500 Posted February 12, 2010 Author Share Posted February 12, 2010 Transmission guy got this truck in, found a his pressures were way off. Dropped the pan found a ton of metal in there. Other shop is taking truck back to work on it. Thanks for the insight guys! Brandon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mchan68 Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 Transmission guy got this truck in, found a his pressures were way off. Dropped the pan found a ton of metal in there. Other shop is taking truck back to work on it. Thanks for the insight guys! Brandon This truck wouldn't happen to have had the reverse clutch drum snap ring "walk" out by any chance would it? I believe there was a program awhile back that affected late-build '04 model years with this specific problem, that also happened to find its way to some '05 model years aas well. Not that it matters now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLittle500 Posted February 12, 2010 Author Share Posted February 12, 2010 I dunno, he dropped the pan, reported his findings and was told to "put that hunk of shit out side" hahaha thanks again guys, Brandon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLittle500 Posted February 17, 2010 Author Share Posted February 17, 2010 Truck came back in today after the first shop installed a "used" unit. Same problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Amacker Posted February 18, 2010 Share Posted February 18, 2010 Cam back into your shop, or the other guy's shop? There's a bunch of tests in the IDS, did you do them? Good Luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mchan68 Posted February 18, 2010 Share Posted February 18, 2010 This is going to sound like another stupid question, but the brakes aren't seized by any chance are they? Have you tried driving it with the downpipe disconnected? And just to clarify, this unit DOES have 15 litres of oil in it, with the proper Ford/Motorcraft filter RIGHT? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLittle500 Posted February 18, 2010 Author Share Posted February 18, 2010 Bruce, The truck came back into our shop, it is actually the other shops truck that they are trying to sell on their lot. As far as IDS tests go, I ran Relative Compression, Power Balance, VVT Test, Boost Test, KOEO, KOEO Inj Elec self test, KOER, but did not run the EGR test due to the delete (the valve is still in there though). mchan68, after road testing again I did check the brakes for abnormal heat and felt nothing, but I am planning on checking them tomorrow once I get it in the shop and put it up on a lift. I have checked oil level and consistancy on this thing, but there was a NAPA filter stuffed under the ford cap when originally brought in so I put a Ford filter in right away but caused no change in the trucks running. Our transmission guy swears and declares that this is a transmission problem and that they got a junk unit and put in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLittle500 Posted February 18, 2010 Author Share Posted February 18, 2010 From Ford tech line: Quote: Also if possible, determine if head gaskets or any other repairs have been performed with the heads off. Similar complaints have been seen from injector tip damage, if the injectors were not removed form the head before it was placed on the work bench. They also said about dropping the cat, even though I performed the back pressure test just to verify. Looks like we're making some noise tomorrow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted February 18, 2010 Share Posted February 18, 2010 If the 5R110 sees much in the way of a trans concern, it is going to do two things... It will skip any non-viable shifts - if TranRat and GearRat aren't what the TCM expects to see, it will declare a friction member is unusable and go into self-preservation mode (my term). You will see codes and the GearRat PID should show you as starting out in too high a gear (most bad stuff with the TorqueShift seems to affect the low/reverse shit first so you'd likely be starting out in about 3rd). I'd have a hard time with two transmissions in a row with the same symptoms... If the motor is having a hard time building power, stall testing the TC might give bogus results. Been a while since I had to go into a TorqueShift but I think there is a TCC slip PID there, somewhere. If the trans and motor are both in decent shape, expect a stall speed in the 2000~2200ish range (caution, memory thing happening). Crankcase pressure test.... I don't want to sound like wiener but you didn't use the 7.3 orifice by mistake, did you? Relative compression... good for finding a bad cylinder or two but useless at diagnosing a dusted motor... Comparing a bad cylinder to another bad cylinder isn't going anywhere. Good luck... FWIW, if the other shop said they did <something> double check them, anyway... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLittle500 Posted February 18, 2010 Author Share Posted February 18, 2010 Crankcase pressure test.... I don't want to sound like wiener but you didn't use the 7.3 orifice by mistake, did you? Yea, I used the one thats one piece (just double checked the number with the shop manual just to be safe), I have another one in the box of diesel goodies that looks like it has a rad cap adaptor, is that the one for the 7.3? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Amacker Posted February 18, 2010 Share Posted February 18, 2010 Bruce, The truck came back into our shop, it is actually the other shops truck that they are trying to sell on their lot. As far as IDS tests go, I ran Relative Compression, Power Balance, VVT Test, Boost Test, KOEO, KOEO Inj Elec self test, KOER, but did not run the EGR test due to the delete (the valve is still in there though). I responded too quickly and did not make myself clear. I meant to say "transmission tests in the IDS". I'm not a tranny guy, but there are several tranny tests in the IDS you could run. mchan68, after road testing again I did check the brakes for abnormal heat and felt nothing, but I am planning on checking them tomorrow once I get it in the shop and put it up on a lift. I have checked oil level and consistancy on this thing, but there was a NAPA filter stuffed under the ford cap when originally brought in so I put a Ford filter in right away but caused no change in the trucks running. Mike, these are excellent comments. Our transmission guy swears and declares that this is a transmission problem and that they got a junk unit and put in it. I'm thinking this is not unlikely.... Good Luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DamageINC Posted February 18, 2010 Share Posted February 18, 2010 I was just going to ask if the GEAR pid has been monitored while driving too, just to make sure this thing's not taking off in 3rd. Could be as simple as Maladjusted shift linkage, haha.. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLittle500 Posted February 19, 2010 Author Share Posted February 19, 2010 Dave, the trans tech had me look at that when he first started to suspect this thing as having a trans problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrunoWilimek Posted February 24, 2010 Share Posted February 24, 2010 If after checking new(used)trans and if it is OK and no other concerns can be found, there is a possibility of plugged injectors. We had an 04 6.0 that had head gaskets replaced a while ago and tech(before diesel certification-not a diesel tech- now service manager)decided the injector tips were dirty and he cleaned them with a wire brush on a die grinder. Upon road testing, he found truck had low power concern. It would need accelerator pedal pushed all the way to floor to get it moving at any rate of acceleration. It was somewhat better in tow/haul mode, but still a beatch to drive. Hotline got involved and many tests later, including replacing the turbo(before disassembly was allowed)twice and many new parts later, 4 injectors(one bank) were authorized to be replaced. It was 75% better, so the other 4 were replaced and problem solved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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