Matt Saunoras Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 Had a 133k mark LT yesterday with a upper valvetrain noise at idle, very pronounced at startup. I could have easily called phasers, solenoids, tensioners etc but from what I've been reading on fmc I'm bound to get burned. So I checked the IMRC and all the spark plugs for being loose. No exhaust leaks this thing is definitely making valvetrain noise. Reminds me of a 4.0 SOHC with tensioners/cassettes on their way out. Base oil pressure was 21psi with EOT at 190°F, far enough under spec to make me wonder, what are you guys finding with low oil pressure 5.4 three valves? I did change the oil (which was 11k overdue) and it made no difference. I'm suspecting a lack of maintenance issue, maybe crank endplay? I didn't get any further with the truck, we basically told the guy change his oil more often and drive it until it quit I was watching the VCT pids but nothing looked out of the ordinary, certainly no difference side to side even though one bank was making noise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fredsvt Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 Did it have a cheezy oil filter on it, that could have sent crap up into the passages for the phasers and valvetrain? I've been seeing a LOT of Jiffy Lubed 5.4/Mod motors coming in with a filter half the height but the same diameter of a FL400A instead of the FL820S (wix 51372). They seem to be consolidating all their part numbers down to a "universal" filter for all Fords. Amongst other brands too. Sorry if I used the wrong Motorcraft number for the first filter, but we use Wix, and it would be a 51516. (same filter as what a 4.2 V6 would take) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Saunoras Posted June 3, 2011 Author Share Posted June 3, 2011 It had a motorcraft filter on it, that was the first thing I looked at. I have seen debri in the solenoids before that ruined the screen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 What year is it? Does it have the updated tensioners? If it has the old tensioners and the seals are blown out, oil pressure can be low as a result. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff_E Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 I've seen several 3v 5.4's with worn roller lifters causing a valvetrain tick. Had one that actually had low oil pressure to the point where the oil light would come on at idle, with Hotline's help - found the cam bearing surfaces in the heads were excessively worn. They didn't look too badly scored, but it was enough... New heads fixed that one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Saunoras Posted June 7, 2011 Author Share Posted June 7, 2011 It was an 06 I believe. When did they start putting different tensioners in them? I have replaced tensioners for the seals being blown out but I never attributed it to a low oil pressure condition(The last one I did a set on didn't have low oil pressure) It was there for vct DTCs and i just happened to find them not to mention some broken chain guides Thanks for all the input. This one likely won't be back but i'm glad I atleast have a direction to go in next time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 On my first day back, after my "holiday"... I had one - an 08, IIRC, with a rattle noise and a P0022. A no-brainer, I figured and called a phaser for bank 2. Another tech changed the phaser and we both looked at the tensioners - what we could see of them, and they appeared OK. Needless to say that the noise re-appeared and the tech replaced the tensioners - which did have blown out gaskets. With everything back together again... the bank 1 phaser decided it was about time for it to act up... Go figure.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshbuys Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 On my first day back, after my "holiday"... I had one - an 08, IIRC, with a rattle noise and a P0022. A no-brainer, I figured and called a phaser for bank 2. Another tech changed the phaser and we both looked at the tensioners - what we could see of them, and they appeared OK. Needless to say that the noise re-appeared and the tech replaced the tensioners - which did have blown out gaskets. With everything back together again... the bank 1 phaser decided it was about time for it to act up... Go figure.... Sounds like murphy's been hard at work again!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 I once had a plaque with Murphy's corollary on it.... "Nothing minor happens to a car on a long weekend" "Nothing minor happens to a car on a long trip" "Nothing minor happens to a car" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitchell Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 5.4 are really becomming the replacement 6l. Ive had over 10 now with low oil pressure. Ended up change out the long blocks on all of them. doing one as week speak, Ive seen everything from blown tensioners, bad oil pumps, crank journals undersied and all of the cams are scored. lowest pressure ive seen was 14psi at hot idle. Anytime now that i have one with low oil pressure i just pull it and put it in a stand. never had to re assemble one yet and put it back in because of the cost of the repair to the short block. ok yeah seen thrust bearings fail as well. mostly on 07 and a half to 2010. The milage as been anywheres from 40 000kms to 110 000kms. all used ford filters and have regular oil changes. heck one was our service loaner lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Saunoras Posted February 14, 2012 Author Share Posted February 14, 2012 Yeah I've given up on them too, it's bad when you're first measure of diagnosis is to pull out the pressure gauge. The last one I long blocked was running 18psi at hot idle. That's the lowest I've seen, most are around 20-22psi. The mark LT from my first post is still out there. I did an oil change on it not too long ago, yep still making the valvetrain noise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmorris Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Our guy here that does them has heard that once the tensioner blows out it drops oil pressure at the cam bearing bosses and if they wait to long to fix it, it wears the cams bosses enough that they lose too much oil past the cam and supplies very little oil to the tensioner after the repair. Seems the only real fix here is to put new heads on them the first time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitchell Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 ford says a blown tensioner only drops the oil pressure 2 psi..... Oh look another one in the shop today... 22 psi.... here we go again lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wring09 Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 I agree on the 5.4 3v's they seem to really be causing issues..how do you explain to a customer that there knock at 800-1000rpms is normal and no cause for concern..and you cant even change your plugs as a person off the street cause 5 times out of 10 youll need your extractor..and vct solenoids and phasers out the wazoo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fredsvt Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 hey guys, I just had an '05 F250 (140k mi) with a real bad knock/clunk at idle, running rough and vibration that the customer was complaining about. The truck has been "jiffied" it's whole life, with who knows what oil and the "universal" wrong filter. It's also been overheated a few times as well. We did an oil pressure test on this beast, it was fluctuating wildly at low idle, but would steady above 1500, but then the motor would vibrate badly. It wasn't a miss, but a definite "feel". At idle, with EOT of 190, it was fluctuating from 9 psi to 30 psi, the fluctuation was right in time with the upper end noise. No crank endplay was noted on this truck. The customer was advised that he should consider a motor, since going into one of these isn't usually cheap or quick to fix. He's going to drive it for now. Did I make the right call on this one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YukonTyler Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 We did an oil pressure test on this beast, it was fluctuating wildly at low idle, but would steady above 1500, but then the motor would vibrate badly. It wasn't a miss, but a definite "feel". Did one on a '10 F250 just before I left for school a couple months ago. Cold idle had oil pressure in spec, but once warm the bottom fell right out of it and my gauge rapidly bounced from 15-25 psi. Crank end play was good. Pulled the rocker cover and found scoring under the cam caps. Pulled the engine to explore further and found the mains done even worse than the cams. I have the sales guy's truck in my bay right now - 2005 F150. 5, 6, 7 and 8 are low on the power balance. No codes yet. VCT pids show a fair difference between the banks. I told him I'm going to throw a phaser and solenoid at it and use some heavy 10w30 or 15w40 in the summer months. What else can you do? Not too many people shell out longblock money on retail jobs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Saunoras Posted May 22, 2012 Author Share Posted May 22, 2012 throw some lucas in it too, just enough to get it traded in Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YukonTyler Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 two more today. first is an '04 F150 with 280 000, low on oil due to a leak on r/hand vct solenoid seal. it came in with a noticeable noise - loud enough that i almost thought it may be a lifter. replaced the blown fuse for the DLC and pulled codes. some of my favourite ones were in there KOEO - p0011 0012 0021 0022 cam/crank correlation, 0340 and 0345 cmp circuits, 0420 0430 catalyst performance. yeehaw ..... hooked up the old oil pressure gauge and watched it rapidly fall from 50 psi cold idle to an erratic 18 psi hot idle in 30 minutes. at 20 psi it started bucking all over the place. lovely. retail long block time + cats + cam sensor harness if he'll go for it. while i was running that one in my bay with the gauge hanging down another one pulled in the lot. this one an '08 bucking all over the place and can't get out of its own way. p0021 and 0022. going to run same oil pressure test first thing tomorrow and i expect much of the same. this one has extended coverage so should definitely be doing this one. i'm going to try them cab off. see how that goes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Clayton Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 Cab off is the best way to go on these!!! Wicked time savor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mchan68 Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 Cab removals on F-150 bodies are a walk in the park compared to Super Duty bodies!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YukonTyler Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 good to hear. been at ford for a year now after moving over from subaru and this will be my first cab off. i've done 5.4s on 250s and 350s but did them in chassis. i'm a little nervous for the first one but i'd like to cut my chops on the retail job before i have to push for time on the ESP truck. any specific tips or is it pretty self-explanatory? we have two diesel guys at the shop and they always have a cab off, but i can count on one hand the amount of times i've seen them getting into a gas job. needless to say i've never seen a 1/2 ton without its body. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Clayton Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 You don't have to worry about the power steering lines at the firewall because it has a vacuum brake booster, on an '04 the body bolts are studs so you don't have to fool around with aligning the body back to the frame, it's either there or it won't go! Take an extra few minutes to make sure the cab is strapped to the lift arm. Thats about it. Basically if something is going from the frame, motor, trans, ect. to the body then it must be disconnected. Even on your first time and taking extreme caution, you can have the body off in under an hour. Well worth it to, read the shop manual on how to get the motor out the way Ford wants it done and it will make you angry!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrbudge Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 We have been putting warranty long blocks in these things. Ford has rewarded us by making us get prior approval for gas engines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mchan68 Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 Virtually NOTHING inside the cab is touched, is one tip that comes to mind. You know the funky two connectors on the outer side of the driver side framerail that collect water? Those have to be disconnected. You disconnect the brake master cylinder from the vacuum booster and let it hang by the lines. The other connections should be self-explanatory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Saunoras Posted June 22, 2012 Author Share Posted June 22, 2012 Virtually NOTHING inside the cab is touched, is one tip that comes to mind. You know the funky two connectors on the outer side of the driver side framerail that collect water? haha YES, I am familar with these damn things for several different concerns. Infact one earlier this week got me. 06 F-150 intermittent no start. Replaced the obvious cracked fuel pump driver module and sent it on it's way. Makes it down to the wash bay and it's a no start again with no fuel pressure. Somehow I get it running long enough to make it back to my stall and it dies again. Check the driver, check power to the driver and I have 12v but it won't light a test bulb. The white FPDM power wire is the very bottom wire in the lower connector. It was completely corroded away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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