wring09 Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 I recently have been in more arguments typically with ignorant people who know nothing about cars but claim that dealer technicians are idiots and that if they were so good they would have their own shop..again makes no sense. Another argument was mis diagnosis...stereo-types of young clowns...i hear this everywhere I go yet im always the buddy fixing other mechanic friends cars when they cant fix them..where does this stereo type come from and why is it that we get all the shops around towns work when they cant figure it out if we are so terrible? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 One of the reasons we get stereotyped is, all too often, that the stereotyped label fits. If we hop into the WABAK machine (set it for the late 60s, Sherman.... and don't forget to bring some ZigZag), we see that we didn't need to know a whole bunch back the. If you were working on a V8, 32 degrees of dwell and 8 before top centre would pretty much keep you out of trouble on most anything you were going to work on. Polarizing a generator would be about the hardest thing unlearn (techs would try polarizing alternators.... not so good for the alternator) and cars remained more mechanical and had little in the way of electronics. Back then, you could work on pretty much anything that came through the door because the level of sophistication of a car was low... breaker point ignition was breaker point ignition and capacitive discharge ignitions were rare.... very, very rare. Oh, we still had more than our fair share of hacks, thieves and charlatans but, if you were good with your hands, you had a real good head start on stuff. Fast forward to today. The modern automobile is a rolling computer network - with more computing power in a dashboard clock than what as sent to the moon in 1969, you really need to have your wits about you (not to mention good reading skills) to just barely make it in this trade. Add that having an understanding of electricity is more important now than it ever was (it was handy way back when - imperative now). Where the dealer techs get slammed starts with the training - the number of online courses that Ford offers FOR FREE to dealer techs, is nearly staggering. Yet many techs refuse to do them - many because they don't get paid to do them (yes, some dealers will pay for passing web based courses - our store pays 2 hours per course). But, even if you don't get paid, there is no reason not to take the courses since the extra knowledge will make you, as a tech, more valuable. Also, we get the latest and maybe not so greatest innovations that come down the pipe... diesel engines. GTDI engines, MyFord Touch, SYNC, intelligent access... the list goes on and on - all of it stuff that aftermarket shops wont see for several years if ever. I could go on and on ranting about this topic.... But look at it this way... you are fixing the cars that belong to other mechanics because they can't fix them, right? Could it be those guys are the reason for the stereotype? If they can't fix their own cars, what are they doing to the customers car? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Bruene Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 My all time favorite line to hear from a customer that brings their car/truck to my dealership... "Well, my mechanic says it's this...". So, if your mechanic is so fucking good, why is it here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 "Well, my mechanic says it's this...". So, if your mechanic is so fucking good, why is it here? Because it is covered by Warranty stupid. Otherwise the car would not be at the stealership! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrbudge Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 The easiest way to make yourself look good is to make someone else look bad, ask any politician. But speaking of sterotypes, what type of person typically "becomes" a mechanic? (I think you are born a mechanic, you can't be taught mechanical aptitude.) It must be anyone who is not smart enough to get a real career, like an engineer. Therefore all mechanics must idiots, in the public's mind. Throwing someone under the bus to make ourselves look good ultimately makes us all look bad and re-enforces the sterotype. I doubt you would hear one engineer say that one of his collegues is an idiot because the bridge he designed fell down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselD Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 It really is a stereotype with a dealership and old public thinking that all dealerships or "stealerships" are out to bend you over. I know my far share of non-dealer shops bending people over more then the worst dealership could. But in their eyes its better still better then taking it to a dealer. Dont get me wrong there are lots of dealer techs that are flat out hacks but so are non-dealer techs too. Consumers fail to realize how complicated a vehicle is now days and it is very hard for outside shop to compete without the proper resources. As with anything they need to do their research and find a good shop/dealer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmorris Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Funny thing is, here we see a lot of ads for non-dealership repair facilities that claim to have "Factory trained technicians". So if dealership "factory trained techs" are the bad guys, what makes the others so special? And those stupid Lube City commercials don't help either. I am surprised nobody has attempted to launch a lawsuit against them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Saunoras Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 I can tell you're young, so am I, put your time in and you'll get your respect eventually. I've seen a ten asset students come and go without ever fitting in yet it didn't take me long at all. It's all in your attitude. This business is tough, you can't get mad at the little things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fredsvt Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 I have found it has worked both ways, depending on which make of vehicle is involved. "Import" dealers, such as Toyota, Nissan and Honda, won't even consider anything done in the indy world as acceptable. Even if the indy shop has used all OEM parts, followed OEM procedures and schedules to the letter. The BS they try and pull can quite amaze. The worst I've ever seen in our area is Lexus, they won't even SELL parts to outside shops. The parts guys and service guys will go out of the way to tell the caller how you just can't possibly work on one of "their" cars. They insist the OWNER of the car show up, with proof of ownership to buy the parts. That goes over oh so well. Our shop has a good relationship with our local Ford store. I wish I could get all the training that's available to dealer techs. I thrive on knowing HOW things work. I find the theory behind how a system is supposed to work more interesting than fixing it, in most cases. As far as the general public's perception of how they see dealer techs, Keith's word, which I hate, is the norm. Only when they think they can get something for free, will they willingly go back to the dealership. Most indy guys are considered nothing more than grease monkeys, who also try and rip off a car owner at every turn. You wouldn't believe the number of people lately coming in asking if the labor rate is "negotiable". Or, if a guy brings 15 trucks in, he'll pay 30% less than the labor rate on the sign. Um, well..... Only those car owners who have had repeated good repair experiences with cars/trucks that run well, reliably seem to have good things to say about those that fix their car/truck. I think that's the goal (or should be) for both types of shops. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wring09 Posted May 25, 2012 Author Share Posted May 25, 2012 Our dealership has a great reputation for its work but you still get those people you hear online or at home or even customers at work that for some reason have that stereotype for us. My dealership has both Toyota and Lincoln endorsements..yes odd I know but it makes for good conversation. And Matt yes im young, and an asset student but am firmly planted into my dealership I love what I do and who I work with and have no doubts about finishing the last year of my training. I grew up in my family owned mechanics shop and used car dealership..we made great money but we also were right before the "big boom" of advancements when we closed down due to cancer in family. I remember doing things at our shop we would never consider doing at my shop. I feel comfortable with most jobs big and small and the amount of training and education at your fingertips is unbelievable with Ford and at ASSET training..I just cannot see how your joe blow shop has the nerve to challenge our abilities when they themselves have had no formal training and probably couldnt explain a wiring diagram and how it worked if their life depended on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Saunoras Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 I'm asset too. 08 graduate. I'm 3 years in a dealer that is so small we can't pick and choose work, whatever driveability comes through the door goes to one of 2 guys. Not to mention we are the only dealership in a town plagued by independents. You can bet we get bad mouthed too for whatever reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parts_Jimmy Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 I deal with the "stealership" label every day. Most (not all) dealerships have the "hit the home run on every sale" attitude. The problem with that is it makes the rest of us that attempt to make a sale with a fair profit look like criminals. I can't tell you how many times I have seen where my parts prices were quite a bit lower than the aftermarket. I have visited a few chain independent shops that double cost on parts and then tell the customer that dealers will rip them off. They will do a job at a lower hourly rate and then pencil whip the customer on time. An they cal us "stealer." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 Here is a sample of some of the thinking out there by an independent who decided to send me his thoughts in my in-box this morning. Note the insult and then the contradiction. Message: was quite thrilled with your site until I found out I was not eligible to use any resources because I am not a FORD tech, even though I know more than the local dealers. How are us REAL mechanics supposed to fix this crap without decent information? XXXX XXX, Shop Foreman, Wilcox Automotive So, we are not REAL mechanics and he is seeking information and assistance from us? This type of bullshit is one of the reasons why this forum is set up they way it is. As you all know, I have welcomed a few independent and fleet technicians into our community. I believe we can work together. I believe respect and professionalism does count for a lot. It's not about how many certifications you have or how long you have been turning wrenches. Show me you are an adult, show me you are a professional, show me a little respect and I will treat you the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshbuys Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 Message: was quite thrilled with your site until I found out I was not eligible to use any resources because I am not a FORD tech, even though I know more than the local dealers. How are us REAL mechanics supposed to fix this crap without decent information? XXXX XXX, Shop Foreman, Wilcox Automotive The same way all us FAKE technicians fix it, get the information, whether by buying it(after all, us dealer techs have it because our dealerships BUY the access to the information) or researching it, and if you know MORE than the local dealer, how could us FAKE technicians on this site help you? We only have the same information as your local dealer from FORD. There are good techs (to truly be considered 'good' in my eyes, you must be humble and willing to help those around you to be good!) And there are bad techs 'leave me alone, I don't have time to help you' attitudes fall in this category. I went through Universal Technical Institute and their Ford Accelerated Credential Training (F.A.C.T.) program, I've been in the dealership for 5 years, I'm a Diesel and Chassis Master, and 3 transmission classes away from being Senior Master, I don't wish to toot my own horn here, but I am dedicated to my work and providing the best possible living conditions for my wife and children, because of this I am motivated to do my best. I am one of the top techs in my dealership (40+ techs) but am also one of the newest (to the industry) techs, I'm good because I am still like a sponge, absorbing all the information I can to help me do my job BETTER. My shop foreman comes to me with any problems he has, even when it's just to run a thought past someone else on a problem vehicle. Whenever another tech has a problem with something, their advisor tells them "go ask Josh". I am of the opinion that if we are not trying to be better, then we are probably getting worse. Or in other words, if we're just hoping that the information we know today will be good enough for all our tomorrows, then we will be way behind where we should be. Our industry is constantly changing and adding new technologies, if we are not staying up to date on our training and learning all the new stuff, then we will be unable to repair the vehicles as time goes on. I have a motto I like to say, "I know nothing!" I truly believe this too, while I can fix anything that comes in my bay, I know where to find and how to use the information to fix these vehicles, whether it's a Power Stroke (which is what I mainly work on), or one of the other brands we service (we're a Hino, UD, Isuzu, Cummins, Allison, Ford dealer) And yes I am also certified on several of these. I still have to question and re-question when I come across something new. All I'm trying to say is Strive to be better and better those around you, and you will find life is much more fun! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mbl35 Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 Josh, UD uses Hino engines? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted June 3, 2012 Share Posted June 3, 2012 Not sure what the cowboy is getting excited over... after all, he can go over to the monkeyhouse where the REAL exspurts live. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshbuys Posted June 3, 2012 Share Posted June 3, 2012 Up through 2010 UD was using Hino engines, in 2011 they switched to Volvo on edit: Same engine, but you still had to use the UD software to talk to them, the Hino software won't work on UDs. Now we have a new laptop with yet another scan tool on it for Volvo....Nice how so much of the software we have is incompatible other software so we have to have separate computers for each.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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